Winter projects

Sounds like you have given this project a lot of thought. Can I assume you will be supplying pressurized motor oil to the turbos from the oil pressure sender connection and using a scavenge pump to return the oil to the motor ? If so where on the motor are you returning the oil, and do you also have a plan for venting the crank case or modifying the PCV system ?

David

I have (2) oil pumps to return oil to the engine one for each turbo. The system has a built in alarm if the pressure drops to the turbos.I built the new valve covers with the plan of running AN fittings, one for each valve cover. An alternate plan is Ting the two return lines to a single line and hooking up to a AN fitting on just one valve cover. Was planning to join the two valve covers with another SS line with AN fittings. Then to a catch can. I am still up in the air exactly how to do the PCV system. Was figuring when I got to that point I would rely on experts in the club. Was going to change the oil in the motor over to a good synthetic oil since the oil from the engine will provide oiling to the turbos. Been planning the project for many months. So I think a lot about it. Have to push hard to get it all done. It is really a lot of diffrent projects thrown in to make it all work as one, more than I have done in just one season. Haven't even started on relocating stuff under the hood, throwing away all the accessory brackets custom panels and accessory brackets, chrome, custom paint, woops Im getting dizzy here.:p

Ken
 
I have (2) oil pumps to return oil to the engine one for each turbo. The system has a built in alarm if the pressure drops to the turbos.I built the new valve covers with the plan of running AN fittings, one for each valve cover. An alternate plan is Ting the two return lines to a single line and hooking up to a AN fitting on just one valve cover. Was planning to join the two valve covers with another SS line with AN fittings. Then to a catch can. I am still up in the air exactly how to do the PCV system. Was figuring when I got to that point I would rely on experts in the club. Was going to change the oil in the motor over to a good synthetic oil since the oil from the engine will provide oiling to the turbos. Been planning the project for many months. So I think a lot about it. Have to push hard to get it all done. It is really a lot of diffrent projects thrown in to make it all work as one, more than I have done in just one season. Haven't even started on relocating stuff under the hood, throwing away all the accessory brackets custom panels and accessory brackets, chrome, custom paint, woops Im getting dizzy here.:p

Ken

Ken,

Most people just ditch the PCV system and vent the valve covers to atmosphere. On my car having the breathers installed directly on the valve covers ended up being an oil dripping mess. I ended up with 12AN fittings welded to each valve cover and a pair of SS hoses going to a vented catch can. This works a lot better, and now I just have to drain the catch can about once a year.

You will need to add check valves to any of the vacuum connections that were attached to the inlet plenum. I also found it necessary to add a check valve and a vacuum canister on the main line that supplies vacuum to the brake booster. Your current PCV hose connection (on inlet plenum) likely includes the fuel tank vapor purge line, which you will need to retain, or your garage will smell like gasoline.

Let me know if you have any questions about how to plumb stuff like vacuum lines for boost controller, waste gates and blow off valve. Oh yeah...where are you putting the blow off valve and what are you doing for a MAF ?

David
 
Why pump the oil back up against gravity to the valve covers, instead of tapping into the oil pan for the returns?
 
Why pump the oil back up against gravity to the valve covers, instead of tapping into the oil pan for the returns?

Well first of all, one needs to drop the pan to drill and tap holes. Not really looking to add to my work load on this car.;) The pumps are required with the turbos where they are at whether you run returns to the oil pan or valve covers.

David: I was planning on something like you said. I heard a filtered vent on the valve cover can get messy. Dont want that. I will figure more out as I get to that stage. The 3" tube should come up on the passenger side at the rear of the engine. I have a vision of the BOV close to the firewall than the slotted Maf and the TB. There is still some fitting to be done. Using a 70MM TB as I just happen to have one.

Ken
 
Well first of all, one needs to drop the pan to drill and tap holes. Not really looking to add to my work load on this car.;) The pumps are required with the turbos where they are at whether you run returns to the oil pan or valve covers.

David: I was planning on something like you said. I heard a filtered vent on the valve cover can get messy. Dont want that. I will figure more out as I get to that stage. The 3" tube should come up on the passenger side at the rear of the engine. I have a vision of the BOV close to the firewall than the slotted Maf and the TB. There is still some fitting to be done. Using a 70MM TB as I just happen to have one.

Ken

Ken,

I think returning the oil to the valve covers is a good idea on a system that uses a pump instead of a gravity drain, just be sure to locate the return as far away from the breather fittings as you can to avoid that frothy returning oil from being blown out of the breather hose and into the catch can, when the motor is under boost.

I would also suggest putting some distance (couple feet) between the BOV and the MAF, so that when the BOV releases air, it doesn't create turbulence close to the MAF and screw up the readings. It could even be placed on the end tank of the liquid IC core (outlet side) or anywhere along the pipe from the IC to the engine compartment. Just be mindful that the BOV will open pretty much any time the engine is running with more vacuum than would normally be present at an idle.

The biggest surprise I think you are in for is how difficult it is to control the rpms once the turbos spool and reach the point where they are self feeding. Meaning the more air they put into the motor the more fuel is burned creating more exhaust which in turns drives the turbine and compressor even harder. If you are going up a hill, it doesn't take very much throttle input for this to happen.

On my car once this happens it doesn't matter if you are only pressing the accelerator pedal 1/4 of the way, it's instantly going to the rev limiter unless there is something to hold it back (like traction). It's a very strange feeling and takes a little getting used to.

I'm really looking forward to seeing this project completed.

David
 
Not a huge fan of the rearmounts, but the can get the job done. Curious to see how twins will spool with your motor. Another issue is oil drain back. Punypony had low mount twin 16g's that give him troubles with drain back, remember reading he was going to build a oil resivior and mount the scavenge pump as close as possible. I reread his build thread and the info is on page #7 of "street strip six" on v6p if you are interested.
 
My concern is that the drain backs in the heads are not that big and if you add the scavenge pumps with a high volume oil pump you may run the chance of flooding the top end and nothing to recirculate. I think Casey has mentioned this issue before.
 
Not a huge fan of the rearmounts, but the can get the job done. Curious to see how twins will spool with your motor. Another issue is oil drain back. Punypony had low mount twin 16g's that give him troubles with drain back, remember reading he was going to build a oil resivior and mount the scavenge pump as close as possible. I reread his build thread and the info is on page #7 of "street strip six" on v6p if you are interested.

Ive read his thread, always looking for others projects to gleem information from. There are ways to eliminate the drain back. So I am feeling good about that. I researched having a reservior and guys who speced the system say they didnt recommend that.

David: Im sure there is a learning curve. I feel like reinventing the car keeps it fresh and new. I am not sure about where installation of the BOV will be. But I will be asking questions as need be for help. Appriciate everyones input

Ken
 
My concern is that the drain backs in the heads are not that big and if you add the scavenge pumps with a high volume oil pump you may run the chance of flooding the top end and nothing to recirculate. I think Casey has mentioned this issue before.

The drain backs wasn't quite the problem. There isn't that much oil that gets to the return line, so returning to the valve cover will be okay.

I'd put the return in the oil pan since an inclination of the return line will cause head loss.
 
My concern is that the drain backs in the heads are not that big and if you add the scavenge pumps with a high volume oil pump you may run the chance of flooding the top end and nothing to recirculate. I think Casey has mentioned this issue before.

The turbos have a restrictor valve restricting oil flow into the turbos. It is also a one way check to limit back flow. The amount of oil is minimual. A lot of problems on turbo projects seem to be guys not thinking through what they are building. I am sure before this project is over someone will point out something to me that I didnt think of:p

Ken
 
You'll have to explain that one a little more in depth for us lay people;)

Ken

Liquid at a higher elevation has potential energy that is lost when it has to run back up hill. Think of a water tower. Pressure at the tank is -0- while pressure at ground level might be 70psi, but if you run the hose back up to the tank, pressure (and flow) will be -0- again. An extreme case, but any time you can use gravity to increase potential pressure, the better.
 
Liquid at a higher elevation has potential energy that is lost when it has to run back up hill. Think of a water tower. Pressure at the tank is -0- while pressure at ground level might be 70psi, but if you run the hose back up to the tank, pressure (and flow) will be -0- again. An extreme case, but any time you can use gravity to increase potential pressure, the better.

I see. Pumping the oil to the oil pan would be a better alternative with that in mind. And flow back would be no problem. Dropping the oil pan just adds to a list a mile long of things that need to be done to get the car up and running. If I had to pull the engine for work in the future I could see installing bungs in the oil pan and rerouting things. For now I will have to live with the returns to the valve cover. Its still nagging at my mind though.

Ken
 
The biggest surprise I think you are in for is how difficult it is to control the rpms once the turbos spool and reach the point where they are self feeding. Meaning the more air they put into the motor the more fuel is burned creating more exhaust which in turns drives the turbine and compressor even harder. If you are going up a hill, it doesn't take very much throttle input for this to happen.

This is something that many of the Ecoboost owners with aftermarket tunes are having fun with. :cool:

Looks good Ken. Going to be picking up the truck Saturday. Are you going to be around?
 
I see. Pumping the oil to the oil pan would be a better alternative with that in mind. And flow back would be no problem. Dropping the oil pan just adds to a list a mile long of things that need to be done to get the car up and running. If I had to pull the engine for work in the future I could see installing bungs in the oil pan and rerouting things. For now I will have to live with the returns to the valve cover. Its still nagging at my mind though.

Ken

But then you could chrome the oil pan!!:D

waiting...waiting...215 seconds....waiting....waiting....45 seconds......waiting...
 
Been following the thread and it sounds really interesting. Looking forward to hearing how it comes together and what the results will be.
 
Rehung the IC after install some threaded bungs for sensors. Hooked up the IC tubes from the turbos to the IC. I will start bolting up the exhaust next and post pictures as I go.

Ken
 

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