4.4 stroked 3.8??

You said run 9s with a Whipple or TVS with some nitrous and still be streetable for $30K at near full weight. Making big power and running low ETs aren't always the same thing.

Casey had a fairly large turbo for his displacement and it didn't start making power until around 5000 rpms, but he had a healthy solid roller cam that allowed him to rev the motor to around 7500, and with the manual transmission his drive train losses were less than an automatic. Oxygenated Q16 race fuel was also used.

It made huge power, and appeared to be streetable, but that particular combo didn't work well enough on the track to runs 9s, because it wasn't built for low ETs. With an automatic I think it was very capable of running 9s, but with the manual I think it was more like bottom 11s or high 10s.

David

Didn't he only have 255 drag radials on the rear? Get what you are saying about making big power and running low ET. But your car could Probabally run 9's and still be IRS am I right? And there is a 03 cobra with a whipple,no nos and IRS in the 9's so if a cobra can do it on its IRS why can't we? They are basically the same rear end. The cars are drastically different and I get that but I'm just comparing ET and IRS.

It will be a while till I could even think about building a car like this (I need to graduate high school first lol) but hopefully I will get my tool and die degree and possibly a second one with more of the CNC control and programming part but if I can get hired at a couple places I've talked to they let employees use the half million dollar CNC machines on the weekend. What I'm getting at here is I could hopefully Make any custom parts that I needed for a project.

I would just love to take my high school car to tx2k18 if its still around in 5-6 years and run with some of the midwest's fastest cars. It's all just a dream right now and im sure no one cares what I'm thinking about but a sc should be able to run 9's (mabye low 10's but with a really high mph) and be fairly street able right? IRS might be pushing it but would aftermarket parts available now hold 900+whp? Im talking from motor to tranny to everything else in the driveline and to the rear tires.
 
Tx2k used to be 130mph cars today it's 170+mph cars. I've seen one lambo trap 180 on street tires. If you want to hang with the camera crew plan on 1000whp, and forget your et
 
Yup it will be retarded by then, plus these guys race 60 to 220. My windshield wipers fly up at 120, deck lid would prob fly off at 220:rolleyes:
 
Didn't he only have 255 drag radials on the rear? Get what you are saying about making big power and running low ET. But your car could Probabally run 9's and still be IRS am I right? And there is a 03 cobra with a whipple,no nos and IRS in the 9's so if a cobra can do it on its IRS why can't we? They are basically the same rear end. The cars are drastically different and I get that but I'm just comparing ET and IRS.


I would just love to take my high school car to tx2k18 if its still around in 5-6 years and run with some of the midwest's fastest cars. It's all just a dream right now and im sure no one cares what I'm thinking about but a sc should be able to run 9's (mabye low 10's but with a really high mph) and be fairly street able right? IRS might be pushing it but would aftermarket parts available now hold 900+whp? Im talking from motor to tranny to everything else in the driveline and to the rear tires.

Could my car do it with the addition of nitrous ? Maybe, if I used a progressive controller and the weather and track were good. But I could also trash the motor or break any number of parts in the drivetrain. I think it's asking a lot from the 3.8 based SC motor to make 900 rwhp and stay in one piece. IMO It's not nearly strong enough and even with a turbo it would be running on the ragged edge. In the past I thought 500 rwhp (using a roots or twin screw supercharger) was about the limit for keeping the motor in one piece. Now, with the ability to do better tuning and data log what is happening, I'm thinking that number might be more like 550 rwhp. Using a centrifugal blower or a turbo I think you could add another 50-100 rwhp.

I think we need better heads, better intake manifolds and stronger blocks to safely increase the HP level. Pretty much the same stuff you already get if using a 4.5 SVO v6 race motor.

The IRS isn't the biggest problem and it can now be built to handle 900 rwhp. It won't be as good on the track as a solid axle with drag race suspension, but still plenty capable of running 9s. Several MN12s have already run 9s with the IRS and several more are very close to doing it. You don't need 900 rwhp to run 9s...more like 700-750.

Why people aren't trying to build 3.8 based motors to to make huge power is because there are other (better) alternatives that will fit under the hood of an SC and be capable of making much more power.

David
 
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I don't see why a 4.3 or 4.4 wouldn't hold 800-900whp with the right parts. Cmac's sc made 805hp which is awesome. I don't know all the parts he used or how much $$$$$ he had in it but I don't know why others arnt even close to his power level? What's holding SC's back from making big hp like 900+? Can anyone that knows more than me about these cars chime in? Gtp guys are in the 8's and they are fwd:confused: is it just not enough aftermarket support for the SC's?

I actually ended up making 830rwhp. 3 more psi and it would have been 900+, but it isn't practical with our motors. With enough money into a motor it will be able to live, but how long it can live under even the power I have made, is unknown. So far it seems that it's a power level where it will last until there is one minor flaw; then out comes the motor once it happens.

A billet crank would be a start.
 
Sure you can do it with an MN12 platform, but not with the SC motor in it. The SC motor has its limitations, it was never designed to handle 5 times the amount of power as you want to pump out of it. You can absolutely hit your 1000HP with a turbo but be prepared for random stuff to break. You'd be pushing the envelop, the only person to get close to that was Cmac and the "glass cannon" effect was in full force.

What I am attempting to get at is you cannot do it with reliability and predictability.

With that being said, if you enjoy your MN12 as much as I do you'll branch out and look for engine swaps. I know a professional class racer who swapped a stock 5.0 Cayote motor into his 95 Thunderbird. 10.87 @ 124 MPH bone stock. Add a blower and you've got your 9 second's with reliability and predictability.
 
Sure you can do it with an MN12 platform, but not with the SC motor in it. The SC motor has its limitations, it was never designed to handle 5 times the amount of power as you want to pump out of it. You can absolutely hit your 1000HP with a turbo but be prepared for random stuff to break. You'd be pushing the envelop, the only person to get close to that was Cmac and the "glass cannon" effect was in full force.

What I am attempting to get at is you cannot do it with reliability and predictability.

With that being said, if you enjoy your MN12 as much as I do you'll branch out and look for engine swaps. I know a professional class racer who swapped a stock 5.0 Cayote motor into his 95 Thunderbird. 10.87 @ 124 MPH bone stock. Add a blower and you've got your 9 second's with reliability and predictability.


I've considered that or a terminator swap in my 95 lx 4.6 2v I just didn't know how hard it would be to get a v6 to big reliable power. V8 would prob be the best way to go I guess.
 
What's holding SC's back from making big hp like 900+?

Too much common sense? :p

Seriously ... Look at Dave Neibert's turbo car, or CMac's turbo car, and tell me you need more power than that. There are a very limited set of places where it would be of any use. Not everyone like to wear Nomex suits, ya know?

If you really want to go nuts, you can probably use a billet steel block... etc., etc., etc.
 
After talking to several engine builders and my good friend Bruce who has been in the business for over 20 years reccomends a "REAL" crank if you're shootong for over 700rwhp. I have also heard it's wise to upgrade the head studs to 1/2" as well. What surprised me was the sc motor used 1/2" main caps studs. Considering J made 700rwhp std with the newer block which uses 11mm and through a 70w.

Other than that I'm thinking 600rwhp will put a 3400lb car in the 9's. Also I'm looking for the et "record" to be shatter real soon when Ron finishes his build. And I hope he does.
 
Too much common sense? :p

Seriously ... Look at Dave Neibert's turbo car, or CMac's turbo car, and tell me you need more power than that. There are a very limited set of places where it would be of any use. Not everyone like to wear Nomex suits, ya know?

If you really want to go nuts, you can probably use a billet steel block... etc., etc., etc.

There is a lot of 8,9 and 10 second street cars close to me. Just a guy in my small town has a rx7 that runs 10.6 without the 400 shot of n2o. I wouldn't be big into drag racing, just enough power to beat nearly anyone that I come across on the street.
 
There is a lot of 8,9 and 10 second street cars close to me. Just a guy in my small town has a rx7 that runs 10.6 without the 400 shot of n2o. I wouldn't be big into drag racing, just enough power to beat nearly anyone that I come across on the street.

Good luck with that. That's a big money game right there.
 
^^Very true! Keeping up with the jone's cost. Better off setting a goal and take the path of least resistance. To me 450rwhp with a healthy power curve is a stout street car. There will always be some one faster.
 
There is a lot of 8,9 and 10 second street cars close to me. Just a guy in my small town has a rx7 that runs 10.6 without the 400 shot of n2o. I wouldn't be big into drag racing, just enough power to beat nearly anyone that I come across on the street.
That costs more money than a "drag car." There are plenty of 11 second drag cars and they aren't close to street car big dogs.
 
Well one of the 10 second cars is my buddy's Camaro ss slp m6. He has 7k in the motor so why couldn't a blown forged coyote swapped mn12 hold with him? I Probabally wouldn't be willing to spend the money to have a 8 second street car but I don't see why the correct setup in a tbird couldn't hold with a 10sec ls1 or some terminators.

Like I said earlyer I don't know a lot compared to some people on here but those new coyote motors make such good power with little mods, seems like the perfect swap for my 4.6 tbird.
 
With that being said, if you enjoy your MN12 as much as I do you'll branch out and look for engine swaps. I know a professional class racer who swapped a stock 5.0 Cayote motor into his 95 Thunderbird. 10.87 @ 124 MPH bone stock. Add a blower and you've got your 9 second's with reliability and predictability.
I WANT TO SEE THIS!! but thats seriously very cool....all's i need is an engine bay picture...:eek::D
 
I don't see why the correct setup in a tbird couldn't hold with a 10sec ls1 or some terminators.

Mostly because our cars are heavier, they have 2 less cylinders, and the motor sucks compared to an LS or Coyote motor. Terminators aren't the greatest motors ever made either, but they are leaps and bounds better than ours.

It really doesn't make a lot of sense to swap one of these motors in an SC anyway because when you are done the car will still be worth $2500 just like it is now, bone stock, and that's only if it runs well. Most swaps like this that are attempted by people without the time, money, or knowledge to get it done just end up with a pile of dreams in the garage.

It would be a much smarter investment both in terms of return on investment and in terms of enjoyment to just go out and get one of the cars referred to above and be happy, if that's what you want.

Believe me, I'm all about making more power and getting things done with an SC, but I'm also somewhat realistic.
 
IMO a SC will not get there, not in the original design. Power is not the problem but where it is in the curve.

Ditch the FMX derived auto ,6+gears auto, higher reving, torque coming in later and AWD if don't want massive slicks.

Basically a 3.7 or 5.0 Ecoboost with ZF HP8, 7DT, or 6HP.
 
if you want to go fast for cheap, get a mustang. I enjoyed my cougar for years, but now that I have a mustang it opens the flood gates on what motor/drivetrain you can use. theres adaptors, couplers, and do-hickys to mount just about anything into a mustang. another thing is that everything has been done, you're not walking through mud uphill making custom parts for everything like in a mn12. mustang's don't lose their value like mn12's. search craigslist. you can find a decent mn12 for 800 bucks whereas the cheapest clunker beat up Rustang I can find is 1100. and best of all they're about 1,000lbs lighter than a SC.

the obvious downside is that the ride quality is ~~~~. my cougar cruised like I was sitting on a sofa. 80mph on the highway was smooth and comfortable.
 
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