Cooling Fan Issue

[Osprey]

I just bought a 1993 Thunderbird SC. The cooling fan does not come on in low. If i turn on the A/C it works and when it is amost hot it comes on. I get a check gauges light just before the fan kicks in. as soon as the fan kicks in the temp goes down and the light goes out. it only drops to 3/4 gauge and then almost hot again. When I turn the A/C on the gauge run in the middle.
1. Is there a fan relay for this model? If so where is it located? I went to the ford dealer and they were no help. I bought the car for my daughter and do not want to run the A/C all the time. BTW i already changed the temperature sensor/switch.

[slick59]

It's called the IRCM. It is the box just forward of the air cleaner box. It does the fans and other control functions. If you are good troubleshooting electronics and can solder you can fix it, otherwise just replace it. Could also be a problem with the low speed windings on the fan or the PCM.

[kw90supercoupe]

With my 90 sc when I bought it the person before me jumped the wire to turn the fan on when the ignition turns on. It just takes about 15 mins for it to warm up all the way. But it never gets past the o on normal. If u would like I can tell u what wires to jump I just have to look under the hood.

[Osprey]

Please tell me which wires to Jumper/

[terralex]

I'm interested in that too.

[J dot Miller]

Why all you need to do is turn on your AC? Start the car. Your high speed fan should turn on.

If it works your low speed fan coils can be bad. Turn off the car and disconnect the fan motor. Be careful. You can check the resistance between the motor connectors. Resistance should peg the scale between two the ends and the center wires. If not you have a suspected bad fan motor.

If you do not have a ohm meter start the car and check the voltage at the connectors. The middle to one of the ends should read more than 10.5 volts. If it does then you motor is bad. Do not run the car long with the fan disconnected.

[S_Mazza]

Fixing or replacing the IRCM is not hard. Please fix it correctly if you can afford it. Makes life easier for everyone in the long run, including those of us who read the posts! There is lots of IRCM troubleshooting info on the web. A lot of it has been posted here and at corral.net.

Edit:
Here's a troubleshooting link. Different model, same principles.
http://www.accutach.com/Documents/An...%20CCRM-R1.pdf

[kw90supercoupe]

Ok u clip the brown with the orange stripe close to the end of the loom so u can reconnect I if u have to. Attach the brown with the orange stripe the end that is coming out of the box tto the little pink wire. Mine looks more pink than red. But its the smaller gauge wire. That's how mine came when I got it. I just haven't bought a new box yet. So it will work if u need it to. I deff want to get a box but like I said it will work for the time being. U can always hook thoes two wires back up later. Hope this helps.

[Osprey]

i figured out the a/c thing after i got a wiring dig. i would like to fix it correcly but have had no luck finding the F1SF-128577-AA or relay V23134-B52-X57. i will replace the relays if i can find them. Help if you can.

[S_Mazza]

i figured out the a/c thing after i got a wiring dig. i would like to fix it correcly but have had no luck finding the F1SF-128577-AA or relay V23134-B52-X57. i will replace the relays if i can find them. Help if you can.

The F1SF-128577-AA is for the whole IRCM (integrated relay control module). You can't get those new, but you can get them rebuilt. People like Cardone or SIA will probably do them. If you don't see it on Cardone's website, call and ask.

As for the relay itself ...

It looks like the codes you found match up correctly to the codes reported here:
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114562

Hmm. I found a link to a datasheet explaining the product code. It's a "Power Relay F4", with some options.

http://documents.tycoelectronics.com...=DS&DocLang=EN

The B appears to mean that it's a simple normally open - closed when commanded - relay. (Anyone more knowledgeable, please check the PDF linked - page 3 of 4.)

The 52 (or 0052) means 12 volt trigger.

The X57 appears to refer to a specific customization. I am not sure what that would be. It might refer to something as simple as the case with Ford marking and part number on it. Or it might have a resistor or diode inside. Care to open up the one you have and snap a pic?

Assuming that the X57 is not very relevant (yes, I know, I shouldn't assume)... I did a quick search at Digi-Key. This part seems to meet the basic specifications.
http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...039-ND/1240170

Not too pricey at $2.88 per unit, plus shipping.

So, you could give that a shot. But I would try to check the internals of the relay first to make sure there's nothing tricky inside. I think the diodes are on the PCB separately, so I am guessing it's a simple relay. If it proves impossible to find the right one, you could grab a standard size relay and wire it into the harness directly. But I would try to avoid that, personally.

[Osprey]

Thank all of you very much!!! That info puts me back on the track.

[terralex]

Found the same info S_Mazza and agree with him on the relay. The "X57" at the end of the relays part number might indicate the way the terminals are formed to fit into a printed circuit board instead of the more normal push in style. Worse case it might have slightly different spacing to fit into the PCB.

If you were handy you should be able to unsolder a bad relay and solder in some jumper wires to attach to a regular relay and then make sure it's insulated in a way it wouldn't shift around under the cover and short out. After all it seems it's the fuel pump, cooling fan and heater fan relay holder

89-90 is one version PN E9SZ-12B577-AA or E9SZ-12B577-AB. 91-92 version is PN F1SF 12B577-AA. Don't remember about the 93 SC's for sure but I think they use the 91-92 version. Then the 94-95 versions are different as well PN F4SZ-12B577-AB. I listed the actual part numbers vs. the Engineering number which would be a E9SF, F1SF and F4SF as the prefix and what you see on the sticker of the part. There is no difference I am aware of for manual tranny cars vs. auto's as far as the IRCM's are concerned.

The main problem with these is just the three relays inside. The relay part number itself is Siemens V23134-b52-x57 (FORD #E8DF-14A640-AA) which is a 12 volt 40 amp, 4 post relay soldered to the PC board.
If your a/c compressor suddenly quits after a while, then comes back on, this is your problem. The relay will heat up and cut out, then come back when it cools.

[Osprey]

OK the car was trying to run hot at any constant speeds above 65mph. Being aggravated and not wanting to blow a head gasket I replaced the entire cooling system... Rad, Thermostat, water pump, switch and temp sensor. The car runs great now at speed but if I am in traffic, A/C off the car still heats up to the full right side of the normal band before it starts the fan and cools it to the middle. I am not comfortable with it getting this hot before the fan kicks in. Should I just buy an aftermarket switch to turn on at 180deg? I have no idea why they would design this to run so hot with known head gasket issues? By the way it had a 195deg thermostat in it and I replaced it with a 165deg one.

[S_Mazza]

OK the car was trying to run hot at any constant speeds above 65mph. Being aggravated and not wanting to blow a head gasket I replaced the entire cooling system... Rad, Thermostat, water pump, switch and temp sensor. The car runs great now at speed but if I am in traffic, A/C off the car still heats up to the full right side of the normal band before it starts the fan and cools it to the middle. I am not comfortable with it getting this hot before the fan kicks in. Should I just buy an aftermarket switch to turn on at 180deg? I have no idea why they would design this to run so hot with known head gasket issues? By the way it had a 195deg thermostat in it and I replaced it with a 165deg one.

Check your first post. "The cooling fan does not come on in low." There's your first problem. Ford didn't design the car to heat up all the way to the right side of the normal band. They designed the car to turn on the low speed fan just over the designed thermostat temperature, so that it would run at the designed temperature. Your low speed fan doesn't work, which lets the car get pretty hot before the high speed fan kicks in and pulls it back down. Fix the low speed fan or fan circuit and you will fix your temperature problem.

As for the 165 degree thermostat, you can see it isn't helping. First of all, the radiator isn't shedding enough heat in traffic because of a lack of airflow, so the open thermostat is kind of pointless then. And when you are cruising at high speed, the open thermostat may be letting the car get too cool. That puts the car back into open-loop warm-up mode, which makes it run rich and hurts your fuel mileage. And running at 165 is detrimental to the life of the piston rings and other metal components in the engine. They wear best right around 200. Which, not coincidentally, is right where Ford designed the engine to run. So, once you fix your cooling fan issue, change the thermostat back to stock and the car will run better.

[slick59]

Check your first post. "The cooling fan does not come on in low." There's your first problem. Ford didn't design the car to heat up all the way to the right side of the normal band. They designed the car to turn on the low speed fan just over the designed thermostat temperature, so that it would run at the designed temperature. Your low speed fan doesn't work, which lets the car get pretty hot before the high speed fan kicks in and pulls it back down. Fix the low speed fan or fan circuit and you will fix your temperature problem.

As for the 165 degree thermostat, you can see it isn't helping. First of all, the radiator isn't shedding enough heat in traffic because of a lack of airflow, so the open thermostat is kind of pointless then. And when you are cruising at high speed, the open thermostat may be letting the car get too cool. That puts the car back into open-loop warm-up mode, which makes it run rich and hurts your fuel mileage. And running at 165 is detrimental to the life of the piston rings and other metal components in the engine. They wear best right around 200. Which, not coincidentally, is right where Ford designed the engine to run. So, once you fix your cooling fan issue, change the thermostat back to stock and the car will run better.

I run a 180 degree thermostat, but I changed my tune to correct the fan to run properly and have no issues. 165 degree thermostat is too cool. I would not run anything but a stock thermostat unless you have a tune to correct the fan. My fan is a aftermarket single speed fan, but again with my tune I adjusted it to turn on and off at the proper times with my 180 thermostat.