Angry Bird update and electrical ID

Bingo - I guess I am lucky to not have needed the EVTM that much for troubleshooting. Not familiar enough with the drill down sequence. But you were spot on! I could only feel a short tail buried up behind my custom battery box and by feel, clicked the connectors together!

As you might have guessed, I sneaked home to see if I could get the "grumpy" bird (as someone mentioned) started. I confirmed my inertia switch had flow in and out. While jumping the relay, I got the engine started, smooth as ever. Is there a way to test the relay? What ground impacts this switch?

Are there any other relays of the same size on the bird? I have a bunch laying around from my deletes.

Feel like its something minor, now that I have it running. Not bad after a total tear down I guess.

Thanks
John
 
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I have to say that is an great job you are doing there,certainly one of the most different ideas i have seen.Any interior pics by chance.Again super cool and just plain different with the bird drivetrain.NICE
 
Tbird wheel and gauge pod.jpgAngry bird interior.jpg
sleeper bird said:
I have to say that is an great job you are doing there,certainly one of the most different ideas i have seen.Any interior pics by chance.Again super cool and just plain different with the bird drivetrain.NICE
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Thanks Sleeper. Here are last years pics. It's getting better as I go. Going to sound line the whole cab. I added to the T-bird console with a DVD including reverse camera. The gauges and switches are for my air system. I now have installed a single wire remote for that function, so I will take those switches out and replace with a pocket for the remote.

I will get it driving first, but plan to carpet and panel the interior. May leave the dash as-is to fit the motif, so to speak...

John
 
jclars said:
I confirmed my inertia switch had flow in and out. While jumping the relay, I got the engine started, smooth as ever. Is there a way to test the relay?
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What color is that relay? I think the simple way to test is to swap out with another same color. Otherwise you need a trigger source, multimeter & pinout guide.

What ground impacts this switch?
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The EVTM shows the inertia switch isolated off the EEC, so any related grounds would be upstream I think.

On the SC, there is an EEC ground wire that comes up behind the header panel/driver side headlight, thru a round black connector, then to a ring terminal that is bolted to the header panel in front of the battery - it is twined at the ring terminal with a short lead that goes over to the negative battery clamp.

There are other EEC grounds, such as G100 that is behind left hand side of I/P, near the steering column. I'd think, tho, that if EEC grounds are suspect, the engine might not even run. Grounds are critical in any case, so be sure to clean and replace if corroded (corrosion loves to hide inside wire sheathing). Add test grounds to troubleshoot.
 
Hi Ken,

I confirmed those particular grounds last night.

From my wiring diagram, it appears the VIP test socket (tan/green wires), when grounded, activate the relay. Wouldn't this confirm that the relay is in fact good?

I couldnt verify where the fuel pump relay obtained its ground, but I am thinking of simply jumpering it to the frame. (I moved it forward about 5' from its original location, so it is highly likely that it would have lost its buss plug-in point. In fact, I don't have any grounds located at the rear of my frame where this would have originally been.

Thanks again,

John
 
jclars said:
it appears the VIP test socket (tan/green wires), when grounded, activate the relay. Wouldn't this confirm that the relay is in fact good?
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Perhaps....at least it should confirm participation, I think. Not sure what it says about in-service load tolerance, conductance, resistance and reliability, tho. Again, when in doubt, swap it out...wash rinse repeat :)

The more grounds, the better when it comes to SC circuits. Painted brackets, old cables, undersized and/or missing connections are all suspects that can hide issues.
 
Honestly, I went to find a fuel pump relay locally and none exist. I could get one in about two days from Autozone for $34. I passed. I found one at Rockauto for $12 plus $8 shipping, but I will defer until after this weekend, when I hope to finish some odd connections like seat electrics, etc. that may flush something out. I might also broaden my shopping list for Rockauto in order to get more value out of that $8 shipping fee.

So how does that work that you ground out the tan/green wire on the self tester and it produces current to the relay. I dont get that.

Well, actually I dont "get" a lot of things. But that is the one at the moment.

John L.
 
John:

Found this on another forum that may help:

With key on there will be two 12v contacts in Fuel Pump Relay socket
With key off only one will have 12v, this is the Fuel pump Power from fuel pump fuse

The other 12v with key on is from the EEC relay, that's the 12v to activate the relay BUT....relay has no ground, the Computer(EEC, PCM) uses the ground to activate the fuel pump relay.
The computer has several ground points and they are not interconnected inside the computer.

The VIP connector is a splice into that fuel pump relay ground wire to the computer, so when you add the jumper you are Grounding the relay not giving it 12v.
If using a jumper on the VIP connector turns on the fuel pumps then wiring at relay is OK.
Computer is not grounding relay.
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This is the VIP diagram:

Eec-pinout.gif


The Fuel Pump (FP) test pin, when grounded, runs the fuel pump continuously. I don't recall if it requires key on.

What color is the relay in question? I can send you a used one in a few days if you like.

Ken
-=-
 
Wow. How do you find this stuff?? That right there explains it very nicely. And seems to confirm that the grounding at the VIP is doing exactly what the EEC would do if that line were grounded properly. (It does switch with the ignition, so it is acting like nothing is amiss.)


Thanks for the offer on the relay. Its the green one. However, it seems to imply that the relay is okay if operable by the VIP, correct? I have to find the missing ground, which is said to be external to the EEC. With your superior sleuthing skills, can you pinpoint that particular ground location??

Thanks,
John
 
ummmm....about those external grounds - I'd fall back on the EVTM to be sure.

I see 14 grounds listed, but it would take a drill-down survey to id which might be involved. Yours being a hybrid system, I'd only be able to guess from here which you want and where they'd be in your example, sorry.

If I was there and had access to the truck, I'd reference the EVTM, my car and a use creeper to inspect the truck for missing/dangling grounds...that and as I said, I'd start adding ground jumpers to see if I could flush anything out. Given what you've been able to overcome so far, I think the solve will turn out to be simple, once you find the root cause, of course. Might just be a missing ground and/or a compromised wire.

As for confirming the relay, outside of replacing it to test, I can't say for sure in your case, but yes, I think you've done that and need to move on.

Ken
 
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Thanks again Ken. Because it is a hybrid, the missing ground could now be buried inside my boxed frame! Although I don't recall such, but still highly likely. Which means perhaps splicing a ground in close to the relay (on the tan/gr wire?). Isn't that what the VIP connector is doing? I had come to the conclusion that I would have to get it up in the air to see underneath. Could be obvious from there.

John
 
Quick question....when you turn the key to on, is the 'Check Engine' light in the dash cluster same brightness as others or dim compared to them?

Ken
 
Hi Ken,

Just got to my shop to check. I think it has self healed. I first switched it on to see the chk engine light to be the same brightness. Then I thought, I wonder if Ken meant with or without the VIP connected. So I undid that ground turned the ignition on, chk engine light still bright, AND I heard the pump prime. Hmmm me thinks. I spun the starter, and it fired right up and remained running...

I swear I havent done a thing. I connected the drivers seat wires and the center console. I will accept it whatever the case. Maybe a dangling wire is temporarily touching somewhere. Maybe the Jag front end is contributing the dreaded Lucas electric influence.

Thanks for sticking with me on this, Ken. I sure learned a lot. Somehow I don't quite feel out of the woods yet though.

John
 
KMT said:
Voodoo - run with it. And don't forget to buy a powerball ticket or two before tonight's draw ;)
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Better it happened now rather than later.

I was ready to take it out on its first 2014 road run this afternoon. (see crappy phone pic my daughter took while I wasn't looking. Maybe I was praying.)

Went to start it. VOOOOOO DOOOOOO......AGGHHHH!!!!

So on the jumper to the VIP went (what, you think I pulled it all out??).

That's why I never win powerball. Other than the fact that I don't buy tickets...

I put it up on blocks this afternoon and will see if I can detect any loose grounds while it is up. Otherwise, its first trip is to get front end alignment, and the shop usually lets me catch some items while its up air.
 

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You meant 4 wheel alignment, right?

Did we discuss the ignition switch down on the side of the steering column (not the key cylinder), yet?
 
Hurh? 4 wheel alignment? You mean I need to align the rear as well?? Never ran with an IRS...

Ignition switch vs key cylinder? Huh? Haven't touched either since it ran so nicely last year.

I am open to all ideas! But not sitting dead in the water. Have sound lined about 75% of my cab while tending to this "problem". Also rerouted air lines up through the tunnel, so moving forward none the less.

And just remember, Its all Fun. As I drove over a root that had erupted in our driveway and scraped the bottom of my new gas tank...

John

PS - I should have cropped that pic. Sorry for all the green.
 
I liked that photo :) Wonderful backdrop...

Yes, the SC IRS is adjustable - camber on both sides. Be sure your align tech is comfortable with IRS. I'd think rear stock SC specs would be ok for at least a place to start.

There is a large multi-wire switch down on the side of the steering column, just below the two-piece plastic bezel underneath the steering wheel.

See comment #8 in this thread:
http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthr...hift-light-fan-comes-on&p=1065469#post1065469
 
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