Pros and cons to super six stage 3 heads

BirdofPrey97

Registered User
Looking for some heads and wondering who has used and or has experience with the super six heads. Preferably the stage 3 heads. Please post dyno numbers and other useful information as far as dealing with the vendor and time from order to delivery.

The information is much appreciated.
 
I never have put faith into posted numbers for heads. Too many variables to allow wiggle room. Much like dyno numbers. Just looking for actual member info and experience with them.

For those that are concerned DD is building the engine and planning on him doing head work as well just looking for information.

My main constraint is $ surprise surprise. With that being said want to only have to build this engine once and willing to leave some HP on the table provided it makes the engine safe to run. If I have to go with cheaper heads then wanting information on what's on the market.
 
Last edited:
I know that a lot of guys have really been satisfied with their split port SSM Mustang 3.8 heads. As far as single port, I'm not sure......the split port is a far more efficient design in terms of power and flow. Can't tell you if anyone actually bench tested their particular heads, though.
 
I know that a lot of guys have really been satisfied with their split port SSM Mustang 3.8 heads. As far as single port, I'm not sure......the split port is a far more efficient design in terms of power and flow. Can't tell you if anyone actually bench tested their particular heads, though.

Split port for M90 use? Thought they were turbo heads mostly?
 
I never have put faith into posted numbers for heads. Too many variables to allow wiggle room. Much like dyno numbers. Just looking for actual member info and experience with them.

For those that are concerned DD is building the engine and planning on him doing head work as well just looking for information.

My main constraint is $ surprise surprise. With that being said want to only have to build this engine once and willing to leave some HP on the table provided it makes the engine safe to run. If I have to go with cheaper heads then wanting information on what's on the market.

Not sure if your aware of this, but last time I checked DD can build any budget level heads you want from mild to max effort. Only one I know who was using Super Six heads on an SC motor is Kevin Leitem, so you might want to send him a PM.

David
 
I didn't find Dave's price quote bad at all on my desired valve train mods. Thought was better that Super Six. Unfortunately I don't have the extra money to play.
 
I am running a set of SSM stage 3 heads. They seemed to make good power for me. You can view my car in the garage and see the dyno information and all my modifications. I would say in my application they should make 350-370. The dyno sheets show 353 whp, but the dyno shop that did the tune had some really weird settings that I since have corrected with the help of Dave Dalke and a quarterhorse. mine should have made peak power much higher in the rpm band and I think timing was being pulled with the way it was tuned. I have been happy with the heads and it met my goals. If i had to do it over again, I would buy heads from SCU because David has always been very helpful to me and I trust the work that he does.
 
I am not a firm believer that the $ spent on expensive large valve heads is worth the $. Then again I feel the same way about an MPX over an S trip :O)~
 
Dave D. done my heads and on a 3.8 sc (kinda like a stage 2) the car still is over 3750# with me in it. I last saw 119.4mph in the 1/4 mile with a mpx m90 on it. Seems to make good power.
 
I am not a firm believer that the $ spent on expensive large valve heads is worth the $. Then again I feel the same way about an MPX over an S trip :O)~

In both cases it's how you use it that matters. Phil's car went from 400rwhp to 325rwhp going from the MPX to an S-port. The S-port has 10% OD and the MPX had 20, but that doesn't account for 75rwhp. Nothing else changed on the car.

For people wanting 300rwhp you can get away with just about anything. You can port stock heads to the max and keep your stock valves, or you can upgrade to a larger valve and skip the porting and get the same results. That's just an example. Bigger valves gives you new, better quality parts, and costs less than spending all that time porting the stock valve heads. I've got more than one mid 12sec car out there with stock heads with just bigger valves and matching cam. What people miss a lot of times is that it's not what is done to the heads so much as it is how the combination is matched both to the cam and blower and also how you drive and what your power level expectations are.

SSM heads are limited just as Dave Clark's Steigemier heads are due to a couple of reasons - first they overport the exhaust side which actually results in lower flow #'s. This is a flaw in 99% of all the heads that come through my hands after being ported by other guys. Once you take out too much material there is no way to fix it short of welding and by the time you've already bought what you thought were ported heads, welding them is kind of like starting over and completely unnecessary if they were ported right in the first place.

I have avoided most flow number discussions frankly just because almost everyone seems to lie about numbers. I don't care that much about the hard #'s if the heads are done right in the first place, but I've had the chance to flow just about every imaginable SC cylinder head out there on the same flow bench using the exact same templates on all of them and so whether or not anyone believes my statements, I know how the different heads compare to each other. I know what works, and what just looks cool. I also know when people are exaggerating.

It does make a difference if you have highly ported, full on cylinder heads as opposed to something that is just "decent". No offense to Dave, but when you struggle to make 400rwhp when other seemingly similar builds are making 450+ then you have to question the cylinder heads. I know what they flow, and I see the results. You don't have to believe in science for it to be real. I know the science behind cylinder head flow #'s and I've seen the results over and over.

That being said, for 300-350rwhp, most any non-butchered cylinder head will do. Phil's car made 350rwhp with completely unported heads (but with appropriate cam and properly set up big valves). That's easy and can be accomplished with just about any cylinder head out there unless it's been totally ruined.

And no, this isn't a sales pitch. I am not trying to sell heads I'm just trying to inform. I have more work than I can do, for which I extend many thanks to the people of this community who continue to support my efforts.
 
I prefer scu personally. His prices are very fair imo and customer service is hard to beat. Went above and beyond helping with my setup. Never dealt with tom but people have made great power with his stuff. Mostly split port turbo cars.
 
Last edited:
Yea Dave has gotten me out of a bind several times,on many things that i have come across.I know this has nothing to do with heads but i read this thread and could not help but say something.I too will be using dd to do my heads and cam if i can ever free up some money something always seems to come up.
 
I'm not a believer in big valve heads on turbo cars, I believe in octane lol. They work well on supercharged cars though. It seems like single port needs that increased flow capability though. Just an observation.
 
In both cases it's how you use it that matters. Phil's car went from 400rwhp to 325rwhp going from the MPX to an S-port. The S-port has 10% OD and the MPX had 20, but that doesn't account for 75rwhp. Nothing else changed on the car.

For people wanting 300rwhp you can get away with just about anything. You can port stock heads to the max and keep your stock valves, or you can upgrade to a larger valve and skip the porting and get the same results. That's just an example. Bigger valves gives you new, better quality parts, and costs less than spending all that time porting the stock valve heads. I've got more than one mid 12sec car out there with stock heads with just bigger valves and matching cam. What people miss a lot of times is that it's not what is done to the heads so much as it is how the combination is matched both to the cam and blower and also how you drive and what your power level expectations are.

SSM heads are limited just as Dave Clark's Steigemier heads are due to a couple of reasons - first they overport the exhaust side which actually results in lower flow #'s. This is a flaw in 99% of all the heads that come through my hands after being ported by other guys. Once you take out too much material there is no way to fix it short of welding and by the time you've already bought what you thought were ported heads, welding them is kind of like starting over and completely unnecessary if they were ported right in the first place.

I have avoided most flow number discussions frankly just because almost everyone seems to lie about numbers. I don't care that much about the hard #'s if the heads are done right in the first place, but I've had the chance to flow just about every imaginable SC cylinder head out there on the same flow bench using the exact same templates on all of them and so whether or not anyone believes my statements, I know how the different heads compare to each other. I know what works, and what just looks cool. I also know when people are exaggerating.

It does make a difference if you have highly ported, full on cylinder heads as opposed to something that is just "decent". No offense to Dave, but when you struggle to make 400rwhp when other seemingly similar builds are making 450+ then you have to question the cylinder heads. I know what they flow, and I see the results. You don't have to believe in science for it to be real. I know the science behind cylinder head flow #'s and I've seen the results over and over.

That being said, for 300-350rwhp, most any non-butchered cylinder head will do. Phil's car made 350rwhp with completely unported heads (but with appropriate cam and properly set up big valves). That's easy and can be accomplished with just about any cylinder head out there unless it's been totally ruined.

And no, this isn't a sales pitch. I am not trying to sell heads I'm just trying to inform. I have more work than I can do, for which I extend many thanks to the people of this community who continue to support my efforts.

Those cylinder heads are coming off of my car after the shootout for a set that flow 228 187 I am going to take them to have them flowed by an independent source so I can take them back to bob with my dyno results and the flow data. If he doesn't fix them I have a local guy who can make them much better than they are now. Hopefully Bob will stand by his work and make them right because I have a lot invested in them. When I looked at the combustion chambers he didn't even un shroud the valves which is getting done as well. I wish you had the time to work on them but I know you don't so I am going to take them back to him first with a level head and raw numbers so maybe it will give him an ideal of what needs to be done to fix the problem. If I remember correctly they flowed 220 178 but Its been a while so I don't really remember.
 
Split port for M90 use? Thought they were turbo heads mostly?

I should have been more clear.....guys with 3.8 Mustangs use SSM split port (99-04) heads and have been happy with them. The single port ones for use with SC's or the 94-98 3.8 Mustangs, I'm not sure about.
 
I should have been more clear.....guys with 3.8 Mustangs use SSM split port (99-04) heads and have been happy with them. The single port ones for use with SC's or the 94-98 3.8 Mustangs, I'm not sure about.

Sorry all, but I wasnt getting any notifications that this thread was getting a response.

I wanted the above clarified about single and split port.

At this time DD will be doing the build for me. I need someone that I can trust and stands behind their work. David more then fits that bill from when I have dealt with him and others as well.
 
Back
Top