Lets talk Maf's

jdsgallops

Registered User
I have a C&L 73mm Maf and 36lb injectors. The Maf is still calibrated for 30's. DD has pointed me to Mac Performance for a sample tube. I am not a fan of their low quality products. I went to their site anyway and I was appalled at the shipping quote which was almost as much as the tube. The C&L seems to be the default meter for ouour cars since that is why the SC shops sell, but what are our other options. Since the meter is the same as a Mustang meter I am guessing anything that works for a Mustang will work for the t bird. With the SCP website stating C&L is out of business(C&L website is still up) my concern is even if I find a sample tube if I ever have to upgrade again I don't want to have the trouble of finding yet another sample tube. So what are the options for other meters or sourcing a reasonably priced sampling tube shipped?
 
Slot maf and some rewiring and tuning software. $15 for the maf, $25 for the piece to hold the maf and then $25-$50 for someone to weld it onto the pipe for you. (Not sure of the cost of the wiring harness) Once the slot maf is in there wont be a need for any more swapping. Then with tuning software and quarterhorse chip changes can be made by you or if you get a chip the tuner can make the changes. Not sure what the current prices are for the QH1 or the software is. Search out be2012 on the web and it will lead you to Clint's website and then go to www.moates.com for QH1.
 
I have not checked with spinning wheels but personally don't have a lot of faith in them. I have contacted Victor before and never gotten a reply. I know this is not normal from what I have seen on this site though. That said just because they are listed on the web site doesn't mean they are actually I stock. If c&l is truly out of business that means supplies are limited no matter what. Checking Mustamgs UnUnlimited web site showed black, iirc, tubes only available. Meaning Mac is looking to be about the only choice. I really have no interest in paying $45 for a sampling tube. It is highway robbery.

I would like to know more about the slot Maf though. I have been waiting to pull the trigger on a DD tune until my hand heals from surgery(few more weeks and I am there still not a lot of strength in it). Therefore upgrading before then would be perfect and would give me the perfect excuse to get rid of the cheap eBay chrome "cai" with filter on the end that was installed when I bought the car. I have contemplated a fenderwell kit made out of pvc pipe. Any pointers on doing this swap?
 
I have not checked with spinning wheels but personally don't have a lot of faith in them. I have contacted Victor before and never gotten a reply. I know this is not normal from what I have seen on this site though. That said just because they are listed on the web site doesn't mean they are actually I stock. If c&l is truly out of business that means supplies are limited no matter what. Checking Mustamgs UnUnlimited web site showed black, iirc, tubes only available. Meaning Mac is looking to be about the only choice. I really have no interest in paying $45 for a sampling tube. It is highway robbery.

I would like to know more about the slot Maf though. I have been waiting to pull the trigger on a DD tune until my hand heals from surgery(few more weeks and I am there still not a lot of strength in it). Therefore upgrading before then would be perfect and would give me the perfect excuse to get rid of the cheap eBay chrome "cai" with filter on the end that was installed when I bought the car. I have contemplated a fenderwell kit made out of pvc pipe. Any pointers on doing this swap?

If you're gong to get serious with your SC, you can use about any MAF - doesn't have to be a slot and you also don't need to mess with different sample tubes. However, if you just want something that runs well, $700 and hours and hours of setup/learning is probably more effort than makes sense!

That being said, getting set up to do your own tuning is the gateway to endless fun (or frustration). :D
 
I have in the past and continue to recommend C&L MAF's for SC's. The reason for this is that they are simple and they do the job. For many SC owners simplicity is important and for this convenience you are going to pay a bit of a premium. There is nothing wrong with the MAC sample tubes, but I agree the shipping is a bit high for something that can be mailed cross country with 2 day service for around $2.50. Nothing I can do about that other than to start stocking MAC parts and then charge actual shipping which I may do if there really is call for it.

C&L MAF's still represent value and with all the people upgrading to slot MAF's these days, the used market is very good. They don't wear out, so don't write off the used market as a good source for these parts. Sample tubes are also available as many people bought them and upgraded over the years. Put a post in the wanted section if you need a particular color tube. Best bet is that if you intend to upgrade significantly in the future, look for a MAF that already has the size and calibration you ultimately want, and then sell your existing one to someone with lesser goals. Chances are the upgrade won't really cost you anything.

Regarding other comments above, it is true that there are other options but unfortunately not all the information you see above is entirely accurate. You cannot just use ANY MAF if you purchase tuning software or get a custom chip from me. All MAF's have a RANGE of operation and if you exceed the range of operation for a particular MAF (MAF and calibration combo), then the game is over and you can't do anything about it. Think about it in terms of HP levels, or blower OD levels, moreso than injector size or calibration. The two are inextricably connected, but one does not determine the other. They both support HP levels (or more accurately airflow levels) and you cannot cheat either one.

For a physical plug and play MAF that will support more than stock HP levels, you are limited to C&L and Pro M calibrated MAF's. C&L offers a convenient calibration chart to help you understand which one you will need in most cases, but when dealing with Pro M MAF's this is not the case. Pro M MAF's will physically plug in, but they are typically calibrated for a Mustang and are notorious for leaning out the AFR at higher rpm's and load values unless you have a tune to match them. Therefore a Pro M MAF is typically not a true plug and play option. They are also more expensive. The plus is that Pro M will service them for you and even change the calibration if you want. The minus is that the cost of that service is worse highway robbery than the MAC sample tubes.

For other non plug and play options you get into MAF's that were originally designed for an EEC V or OBDII application such as the Cobra or Lightning. These MAF's are larger (4" outlet) and require adapters on both sides to fit an SC. They also require rewiring the plug which means that you are now taking on more responsibility for the proper running of your engine. I've seen many botched wiring attempts and have had to deal with the problems that follow. I am also continually amazed at the physically botched adaptations, with blockages and turbulence causing all sorts of tuning issues. So while this is not a bad option, it means you have to do the conversion right and you have to have a tune to go with it. The MAF's themselves are good quality and will support up to 350-400rwhp depending on how greedy your particular engine happens to be.

The slot MAF is a much newer configuration of sensor that is used universally on all new Fords. This was a smart move on Ford's part because they now have to stock only one part for all their cars. It also helps us because it standardizes things a bit. However, there are always drawbacks. First, you will absolutely require tuning to use this MAF. Second, the range of this MAF varies greatly because just like the old C&L sample tube concept, the size of your tube dictates the range of the sensor. A stock Ford sensor in a 3" tube will have about the same range as a stock MAF. The sensors are also very sensitive to orientation and installation. This means again that your results will vary based on where and how you install the sensor. Third, you will now be responsible not only for the wiring of the sensor, but also the mounting of it. You'll need to buy a flange and weld it into a piece of tubing. And finally, not all slot MAF sensors are the same. Because an OE slot MAF will max out in even a 4.5" tube at around 500rwhp, and because many people like to run blow through in a 3" tube, SCT and HPX as well as others, have taken to recalibrating the slot MAF's and reselling them. These sensors are not calibrated to any particular HP level or injector size, but they have greatly extended dynamic range and require their own tuning parameters. Just an FYI that not all slot MAF's are the same.

If none of that is particularly daunting to you, then by all means go for it. The sensors work well and the whole thing offers more flexibility of installation. But if you are scratching your head at any of this, or are the type to throw in the towel when the thing doesn't start and run perfectly on the first try, or if you are the type to throw in the towel because you ended up having to buy a new flange and start over cause you messed something up, then don't even bother thinking about a slot MAF. Know your limitations before jumping in because the car won't run without a properly calibrated (meaning between the sensor itself and the table in the EEC program) MAF. I can predict the output of a C&L MAF pretty well when it is installed in normal configurations, but when you fab up a slot MAF on your own, all bets are off. Don't count on a mail order chip being able to accurately match the output curve of your now custom MAF.

Hope that helps some.
 
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Dave,

Thanks for taking the time to type that information out! Now if we could get people to use the search button.....

Be nice if we could make that information a sticky.?.?.?

For the OP, if you can live with a 76 instead of a 73 let me know. Also if you have a 73 let me know which tube you need. See what I can find.
 
Whew - what a book!! :)

Of course, Dave is right about the operating range of some MAF's and the car they are put on. If you can change your tune (MAF curve) - you could potentially use several different MAF combos (body & sample tube or slots, etc) - including (I think), exactly what you have now.
 
Dave it always astounds me at how much information you are willing to share and the time you take to share it as a professional. I am sure this is what makes you as successful as you are. I am very grateful for your post.

You make a great point about how Maf's are labeled. Using injector size is very misleading. In reality it is a matter of data points for presicion not ultimate hp. I use a LMAF, "42lb" calibration with 30lb injectors on my Mustang. Using a Maf of "larger calibration" than injector size leaves a little safety. The real issue as you point out becomes mounting. In most cars it is virtually impossible to
Mount enough straight piping before the meter to get a non turbulant signal. I was very fortunate in my Mustang to not need a lot of Maf adjustment even with a 90* bend right before the meter.

Being my car is hopefully going to be daily driver capable going to the slot Maf doesn't make a lot of sense. Especially depending on Dave to do the tune for me as I just don't have the time right now. Which means I need to chalk up the insane shipping rate as part of the tuning process.

Birdofprey you have a pm.

As much as I try to use the search quite frankly I hope some people realize this forum has been around for a long time. It is not unusual to do a search and have a post 10 years old pop up as the first one. It is not always relavent and often times spending hours on end searching through the search results for the answer to your question is just too time consuming. Putting some of this in a Faq section or sticky would be as great idea.
 
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