Issues with A/C Compressor, and an update on my SC

Roboplex

Registered User
So I just got my SC's cooling fan motor replaced, along with the IRCM, and it's helped with my overheating issue I had quite a few months ago. The mechanic also fixed some vacuum leaks in the new brake system so it's not stalling at traffic lights anymore. So at least she's drivable now.

However, I'm having an issue with my A/C. My A/C Compressor started smoking today. Yesterday after getting it home from the shop, the A/C was blowing ice cold, and I didn't notice any abnormal smell. Today, I started her up, turned on the A/C, and it was blowing warm air (not hot, it had been cooled a little bit). After a few minutes of running, I noticed a burning smell, it started blowing HOT air, and the compressor started smoking about where the pulley meets the compressor itself. The belt also started shaking when this happened.

A few hours later, I started it up, the same thing happened, but I caught it before it started smoking. I drove it with the A/C off, and it seemed fine. I turned the A/C on while I was driving, and it blew cold air like nothing happened, but I turned it back off just in case. I do know the car has a mild freon leak somewhere (it's been about a year since it's been recharged, but it was blowing ice cold yesterday), and the compressor has been rebuilt at least once that I know of (there's a sticker on the compressor that says so).

I'd love your input on this, and I'm glad to be back on SCCOA.

Joseph B.
 
If there is smoke coming from the compressor, then it is locking up. When it locks up, the compressor clutch and/or the belt slips, causing the smoke. Replace the compressor, flush the system, fix the leak, and refill it with the proper amount of refrigerant and pag oil.
 
If there is smoke coming from the compressor, then it is locking up. When it locks up, the compressor clutch and/or the belt slips, causing the smoke. Replace the compressor, flush the system, fix the leak, and refill it with the proper amount of refrigerant and pag oil.

Thanks! I found a compressor online for like $120, so I'll order it and tell you how it goes. In your opinion, should I replace the condenser as well? I read that it's a general rule that you should, but I really don't want to spend extra money if I don't have to. I'd just like your opinion.

Thanks!
Joseph B.
 
Thanks! I found a compressor online for like $120, so I'll order it and tell you how it goes. In your opinion, should I replace the condenser as well? I read that it's a general rule that you should, but I really don't want to spend extra money if I don't have to. I'd just like your opinion.

Thanks!
Joseph B.

The condensor NEEDS to be flushed.

The current designs don't flush well, so it's better to replace.

It's your choice, though; a little now and a little again later; or a bit more now and no more later *grins*

(Besides, a new compressor from RockAuto is around $80; cheap at twice the price IMO. Also, replace the accumulator and the orifice tube; both will be crapped by the compressor failing. Still flush the evaporator, or as soon as it fires up, it'll start spitting the crap from the failed compressor into the new one, killing IT also. Le sigh.)

A reman'ed kit with the accumulator and the orifice tube hose is around $160 at RockAuto (new is under $200). I'm in the same category; I've got a leak at the compressor (an old SC compressor) on my 1991 Cougar, so I'm going to go for the new compressor, new accumulator, new orifice tube hose and condensor and flushing all else out (I don't think the compressor spit itself; it's just leaking around the front seal now. Le sigh.) Good news, I have the gauges and the vacuum pump. Bad news, it's STILL over $330.

RwP
 
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The condensor NEEDS to be flushed.

The current designs don't flush well, so it's better to replace.

It's your choice, though; a little now and a little again later; or a bit more now and no more later *grins*

(Besides, a new compressor from RockAuto is around $80; cheap at twice the price IMO. Also, replace the accumulator and the orifice tube; both will be crapped by the compressor failing. Still flush the evaporator, or as soon as it fires up, it'll start spitting the crap from the failed compressor into the new one, killing IT also. Le sigh.)

A reman'ed kit with the accumulator and the orifice tube hose is around $160 at RockAuto (new is under $200). I'm in the same category; I've got a leak at the compressor (an old SC compressor) on my 1991 Cougar, so I'm going to go for the new compressor, new accumulator, new orifice tube hose and condensor and flushing all else out (I don't think the compressor spit itself; it's just leaking around the front seal now. Le sigh.) Good news, I have the gauges and the vacuum pump. Bad news, it's STILL over $330.

RwP
From my understanding, it's most likely the clutch that's bad, since the pulley seized up causing the smoke, not the internals of the compressor, correct? In that case, wouldn't the condenser be fine, since the clutch doesn't have anything to do with the actual refrigerant itself, and there wouldn't be any debris in the system? I don't have any access to compressed air to flush the condenser, and I'd rather not take it to a mechanic (just dropped $500 on repairs last week). Like you said, the condensers are cheap, and I could do that myself since I wouldn't need to flush it. I'm willing to do whatever I need to get it fixed, I just don't want to do anything that's unnecessary. I'm just trying to wrap my head around what I need to do.

I really appreciate your help!
 
From my understanding, it's most likely the clutch that's bad, since the pulley seized up causing the smoke, not the internals of the compressor, correct? In that case, wouldn't the condenser be fine, since the clutch doesn't have anything to do with the actual refrigerant itself, and there wouldn't be any debris in the system? I don't have any access to compressed air to flush the condenser, and I'd rather not take it to a mechanic (just dropped $500 on repairs last week). Like you said, the condensers are cheap, and I could do that myself since I wouldn't need to flush it. I'm willing to do whatever I need to get it fixed, I just don't want to do anything that's unnecessary. I'm just trying to wrap my head around what I need to do.

I really appreciate your help!

Actually, if turning the A/C off STOPS the hang, it's not the clutch bearings. It might be the clutch and coil, so you can try that; that won't even take the whole compressor.

You may want to try a clutch kit on it first ... http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...&+air+conditioning,a/c+compressor+clutch,6572

Yes, it's almost as much as the compressor. HOWEVER, you'll not have to break the system, so the charge stays good, it keeps cooling, and all sounds good.

HOWEVER ... if it locked up the belt with it on, it's the COMPRESSOR itself. Especially if it quit being locked up with the A/C off.

RwP
 
Actually, if turning the A/C off STOPS the hang, it's not the clutch bearings. It might be the clutch and coil, so you can try that; that won't even take the whole compressor.

You may want to try a clutch kit on it first ... http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...&+air+conditioning,a/c+compressor+clutch,6572

Yes, it's almost as much as the compressor. HOWEVER, you'll not have to break the system, so the charge stays good, it keeps cooling, and all sounds good.

HOWEVER ... if it locked up the belt with it on, it's the COMPRESSOR itself. Especially if it quit being locked up with the A/C off.

RwP
It seems to only happen when the AC is on. The car runs perfectly with the AC off, at least today it did. I drove it around for about an hour with the AC off and it was absolutely fine. No smell, no smoke. It doesn't happen every time I put the AC on either. Sometimes it gets ice cold and it's like normal. Sometimes it blows lukewarm air for a few minutes, then locks up. I'll test all of this again tomorrow deliberately, this is just from what I remember from the past few days of driving it.

Thinking back, I think the compressor might have a freon leak, as I just remembered I started hearing a hissing noise from the compressor a few months ago. I doubt it's low on freon since when it works, it blows REALLY cold air. Last time I had it recharged, the mechanic put in freon with stop leak. Could that have gummed up the compressor? I'm just throwing everything I can remember out there, hopefully you can make something out of it :).

Have a good night
Joseph B.
 
Last time I had it recharged, the mechanic put in freon with stop leak. Could that have gummed up the compressor? I'm just throwing everything I can remember out there, hopefully you can make something out of it :).

Have a good night
Joseph B.

The compressor and/or the orifice tube. Don't know that's what it IS, but I'd do the orifice tube ALSO while replacing the compressor.

Do be aware you won't have much time if you don't want to replace the accumulator also. Plus, you'll need the PAG oil for the compressor (PAG 46 is recommended; Ester oil can also be used)

If doing it yourself, you'll need to rent the gauges, the vacuum pump, and don't forget the R134a. May even need the conversion kit. Just so you're braced for it.

RwP
 
If it is smoking, the problem is not just the clutch. A failed clutch will either not engage, or stay engaged. Smoking means the clutch is engaging, but the compressor can't turn, so you will have to replace the complete assembly. No need to replace the condenser or evaporator, but do flush them out with some brake-clean and compressed air, and do replace the accumulator and orifice tube.
 
If it is smoking, the problem is not just the clutch. A failed clutch will either not engage, or stay engaged. Smoking means the clutch is engaging, but the compressor can't turn, so you will have to replace the complete assembly. No need to replace the condenser or evaporator, but do flush them out with some brake-clean and compressed air, and do replace the accumulator and orifice tube.
Do you know of any ways to do it without compressed air? Maybe by pulling a vacuum? I can get a vacuum pump, I just dont have an air compressor at my disposal.
 
Do you know of any ways to do it without compressed air? Maybe by pulling a vacuum? I can get a vacuum pump, I just dont have an air compressor at my disposal.

Well, on an episode of Wheeler Dealers, Edd Chyna showed flushing an intercooler by using cork plugs; pouring acetone into it; sloshing back and forth; and then pouring it out.

I don't know if that would do the job or not, though.

Maybe you might have a friend with a storage tank and a compressor? Charge the tank up and use it?

Shucks, you can buy decent compressors at Hazard Fraught ... err, Harbor Freight for under $60 nowadays if you locate a coupon. Currently, as I type this, their home page has one for $50.

Edit: Link, without coupon code: http://www.harborfreight.com/3-gal-13-HP-100-PSI-Oilless-Pancake-Air-Compressor-61615.html

RwP
 
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You can get a can of compressed air, or they might sell something at the auto parts store meant to flush it. You want something with a bit of pressure behind it though to get the little particles out of there.
 
What all Ralph said.. ;) But I will add a few foot+cliff notes.

The orifice tube is part of the liquid line. You'd be better served by replacing the entire line; HOWEVER... you CAN run some brake cleaner in the back side.. cap it with your thumbs and slosh it around. Then drain and look at what comes out. If its rather clean and you can blow through it without it restriction, you can reuse it. OTOH, the particles that make it through the fine mesh are still in your system. It needs a good flush.
Be aware that your new accumulator/drier will also filter out a small amout of contaminants.

Same situation with the condenser. IF you can clean it and there isn't a large amount of crud from it, you can reuse it. Its a judgement call.
You will need a new compressor. No way around that. When they sieze up, they're done for.

You can search on the forums for A/C r134a retrofit and "black death" and read up since its a very lengthy topic and discussion.
 
What all Ralph said.. ;) But I will add a few foot+cliff notes.

The orifice tube is part of the liquid line. You'd be better served by replacing the entire line; HOWEVER... you CAN run some brake cleaner in the back side.. cap it with your thumbs and slosh it around. Then drain and look at what comes out. If its rather clean and you can blow through it without it restriction, you can reuse it. OTOH, the particles that make it through the fine mesh are still in your system. It needs a good flush.
Be aware that your new accumulator/drier will also filter out a small amout of contaminants.

Same situation with the condenser. IF you can clean it and there isn't a large amount of crud from it, you can reuse it. Its a judgement call.
You will need a new compressor. No way around that. When they sieze up, they're done for.

You can search on the forums for A/C r134a retrofit and "black death" and read up since its a very lengthy topic and discussion.
I'll replace the Accumulator, Condenser, and Orifice tube along with the compressor. Like I said there's a leak in the system anyway and have a good chance of fixing the leak. I'd rather replace everything and know it's good than save $100 and risk having to do it again. Florida summers are unbearable without AC, so I'm doing this right. Plus it's still gonna be cheaper than going to the mechanic for just the compressor and flush.

Thanks!
 
What all Ralph said.. ;) But I will add a few foot+cliff notes.

The orifice tube is part of the liquid line. You'd be better served by replacing the entire line; HOWEVER... you CAN run some brake cleaner in the back side.. cap it with your thumbs and slosh it around. Then drain and look at what comes out. If its rather clean and you can blow through it without it restriction, you can reuse it. OTOH, the particles that make it through the fine mesh are still in your system. It needs a good flush.
Be aware that your new accumulator/drier will also filter out a small amout of contaminants.

Same situation with the condenser. IF you can clean it and there isn't a large amount of crud from it, you can reuse it. Its a judgement call.
You will need a new compressor. No way around that. When they sieze up, they're done for.

You can search on the forums for A/C r134a retrofit and "black death" and read up since its a very lengthy topic and discussion.
So I just went through the previous owner's records. There have been 2 incidents where the compressor needed to be replaced. One in 2000, one before. On the older one the writing is hard to read, I can't tell if they replaced the whole Compressor, but I see the words Clutch/Pulley so they might've only done those. The first ticket also says they replaced the accumulator & liquid line, flushed condenser/evaporator, and converted to R134a. It also says that the condenser/evaporator may go bad due to increased pressure and the fact that they're original (pressure: 110/120). The 2nd (2000) ticket says they replaced compressor and clutch, replaced the retrofit kit, the liquid line, the accumulator, and the orifice tube. I guess it's good I'm replacing the condenser, it's had a hard life xD.

I just thought I'd post this here, let me know if this changes anything. Thanks!
 
So I just went through the previous owner's records. There have been 2 incidents where the compressor needed to be replaced. One in 2000, one before. On the older one the writing is hard to read, I can't tell if they replaced the whole Compressor, but I see the words Clutch/Pulley so they might've only done those. The first ticket also says they replaced the accumulator & liquid line, flushed condenser/evaporator, and converted to R134a. It also says that the condenser/evaporator may go bad due to increased pressure and the fact that they're original (pressure: 110/120). The 2nd (2000) ticket says they replaced compressor and clutch, replaced the retrofit kit, the liquid line, the accumulator, and the orifice tube. I guess it's good I'm replacing the condenser, it's had a hard life xD.

I just thought I'd post this here, let me know if this changes anything. Thanks!
I'm thinking of replacing the evaporator while I'm at it just since it's so damn cheap ($40). It is original from 1990, and it's been through 3 compressors already (not counting this new one). That would eliminate all the weak spots in the whole system.
 
I'm thinking of replacing the evaporator while I'm at it just since it's so damn cheap ($40). It is original from 1990, and it's been through 3 compressors already (not counting this new one). That would eliminate all the weak spots in the whole system.
As a heads up, its a pretty involved job; you have to remove the dash to get to the evaporator case. You have to split the case and then reglue it.
So thats also the time to replace the heater core. If you're like me, I'd refurbish the dash frame. Sand/prime to eliminate some of that interior rusty smell; rewrap the wiring harness; run any accessory wiring, fix rattles, re-epoxy broken trim clips, etc.
 
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As a heads up, its a pretty involved job; you have to remove the dash to get to the evaporator case. You have to split the case and then reglue it.
So thats also the time to replace the heater core. If you're like me, I'd refurbish the dash frame. Sand/prime to eliminate some of that interior rusty smell; rewrap the wiring harness; run any accessory wiring, fix rattles, re-epoxy broken trim clips, etc.
I'm gonna attempt it, I got my hands on a service manual, but if I get into it and it's too much for me I'll just flush it and hope it holds.
 
As a heads up, its a pretty involved job; you have to remove the dash to get to the evaporator case. You have to split the case and then reglue it.
So thats also the time to replace the heater core. If you're like me, I'd refurbish the dash frame. Sand/prime to eliminate some of that interior rusty smell; rewrap the wiring harness; run any accessory wiring, fix rattles, re-epoxy broken trim clips, etc.
In your opinion, how long do you think it would take? I've done a blower motor before, and I just recently had to put in a new Climate Control unit in my mom's car which had me taking the trim off the dash, but I've never done anything to this caliber. I don't want to be in TOO over my head.

I talked to my grandfather about it today, he's the one who suggested I do the evaporator, and he seemed to think I could do it, but that might just be him.

Sorry if I keep posting or if I seem stupid or anything, I just don't want to make a wrong move here. Again, thanks for your patience!
 
This thread is for '95 SC, I think, and if you can get thru the lack of formatting, you'll get the idea, I think...

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthr...e-(help-nee&highlight=heater+core+replacement

seats, steering column, wiring, dash....big job any way you look at it, but as noted, do the heater core if you take the plunge.

As for replacing the condenser, you might want to consider the narrow, more modern style that frees up space in front of the intercooler. Search here.
 
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