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Thread: 2017 Dyno results/upgrades

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Neibert View Post
    Yeah...I'm not really unhappy with how high it flashes when I'm at the track, just feels a little too slippy when cruising around and generates more heat than I like. I think 3000 stall that flashed to around 5000 would feel much better and run a little cooler.

    David
    I can understand that for sure. What converter do you have? Companies like PTC, Circle D, M&M, Coan and so on have mechanical lock up features that increase efficiencies of converters, thus reduced heating. Sometimes I wonder if money isn't invested into high efficiency AOD converters then that motivates people to use sub-par stall speeds that sacrifice performance that doesn't necessarily adversely affect streetability.
    1994 SC
    4.5L Twin Turbo SVO
    Project GTFD

  2. #17
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    Congrats Jacob.

    Just to pile onto the converter discussion. I essentially have the same convertor as Neibert (or he has the same as me, I had mine first). I love it at the track, but I too think I need to tighten it up a bit. It is also the reason my car performs well at the track, but sucks on a dyno. Since this is the first transmission I have had that has lasted, I'm afraid to change anything.
    Kurt K (e-mail)
    SCCoA Member #: 443
    '92 SC AOD -- 11.521s @ 116.748mph, 2.0 AR power
    . . . . . . . . . -- 13.547s @ 101.01 mph, only w/ bolt-ons
    '95 SC 5spd -- All Stock, except 17" Simmons wheels.
    '90 SC 35th Anny 5spd -- 3rd owner, 16k miles
    2 '89 XR7 5spd's -- on their way out, really!

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by CMac89 View Post
    I can understand that for sure. What converter do you have? Companies like PTC, Circle D, M&M, Coan and so on have mechanical lock up features that increase efficiencies of converters, thus reduced heating. Sometimes I wonder if money isn't invested into high efficiency AOD converters then that motivates people to use sub-par stall speeds that sacrifice performance that doesn't necessarily adversely affect streetability.

    Circle D doesn't advertise a converter for an AOD on their website but they do make them. Great converter in my opinion.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt K View Post
    Congrats Jacob.

    Just to pile onto the converter discussion. I essentially have the same convertor as Neibert (or he has the same as me, I had mine first). I love it at the track, but I too think I need to tighten it up a bit. It is also the reason my car performs well at the track, but sucks on a dyno. Since this is the first transmission I have had that has lasted, I'm afraid to change anything.


    Mine is a 9" billet dirty dog 31spline (I have the billet input shaft). It will make you cry when you dyno the car lol.
    I only made 213rwhp when it was running 13.70s and at 289rwhp i was going 12.70/107.7 i love how it does on the track
    But it is really loose on the street. Mpg is beyond crappy I get 12ish lol i hope to see a low 12 this year!
    93 SC Red Auto 111k
    2013 Shootout Bracket ET First Place
    2015 Shootout Car Show Honerable Mention
    2016 Shootout Mod-1 First Place
    4.2, MPX, 3.73s Built AOD
    12.70@107.2
    Coming soon 11.xxx

  5. #20
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    I think you guys are confused. Nobody's converter here flashes that high. Sure it jumps to 5000rpm pretty quick on the dyno, but that is because you are already in 3rd going 50mph when you try to lock it up AND it's probably slipping the tires to boot. You all need to datalog your cars AT THE TRACK before starting these conversations. My 5.0 "flashes" as you say on the dyno to about 4800rpm, and anytime you mash the throttle on the street it hits 3500rpm instantly, but at the track with slicks on and from a stand still it flashes/stalls at 2800rpm. Period. You can't make it go over 2800rpm without moving the tires first.

    Not saying some of you couldn't use lower stall speeds, but suggesting that it would be helpful to use correct terms correctly and to be quote actual data rather than perceptions based on fluid conditions. I don't think the converters are eating up as much HP as you guys seem to think either. Brian Whitfield's 4.2 routinely makes 380+rwhp through his AOD and runs low 12's. He has a loose converter too. There are others as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller View Post
    Ya thats why i tape mine down. People think its bc i dont have a moonroof seal (which is true) but its really to keep my roof from ripping off .
    Email me here.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob_Royer View Post
    I would be happy with it stalling around 2800rpm like it did with my old motor.
    You say this for the same reason Neibert says this:

    Yeah...I'm not really unhappy with how high it flashes when I'm at the track, just feels a little too slippy when cruising around and generates more heat than I like. I think 3000 stall that flashed to around 5000 would feel much better and run a little cooler.

    David
    And like Dalke said being on a Dyno is way different than at the track on Slicks.
    Chris' Current Stable:
    1990 35th SC - Still under the knife.
    441.89 RWHP/403.88 RWTQ
    11.820 @ 114.71
    2014 Hyundai Veloster TURBO baby!!! HAHA!

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wzenheimer View Post
    You say this for the same reason Neibert says this:



    And like Dalke said being on a Dyno is way different than at the track on Slicks.


    This is why my next tranny will be a 4r70w lol
    93 SC Red Auto 111k
    2013 Shootout Bracket ET First Place
    2015 Shootout Car Show Honerable Mention
    2016 Shootout Mod-1 First Place
    4.2, MPX, 3.73s Built AOD
    12.70@107.2
    Coming soon 11.xxx

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by XR7 Dave View Post
    I think you guys are confused. Nobody's converter here flashes that high. Sure it jumps to 5000rpm pretty quick on the dyno, but that is because you are already in 3rd going 50mph when you try to lock it up AND it's probably slipping the tires to boot. You all need to datalog your cars AT THE TRACK before starting these conversations. My 5.0 "flashes" as you say on the dyno to about 4800rpm, and anytime you mash the throttle on the street it hits 3500rpm instantly, but at the track with slicks on and from a stand still it flashes/stalls at 2800rpm. Period. You can't make it go over 2800rpm without moving the tires first.

    Not saying some of you couldn't use lower stall speeds, but suggesting that it would be helpful to use correct terms correctly and to be quote actual data rather than perceptions based on fluid conditions. I don't think the converters are eating up as much HP as you guys seem to think either. Brian Whitfield's 4.2 routinely makes 380+rwhp through his AOD and runs low 12's. He has a loose converter too. There are others as well.
    Just to make sure I'm using the correct terms and not confusing anything, I assume that rpm and mph are used to determine when the tires start to move (I also compared TP to see when I started the race). If that's the case, mine doesn't move until something greater than 3972 rpm and less than 4296 rpm. If there are different parameters required, please let me know so I log the best information. I imagine if I could measure driveshaft rpm, that would be a better way to see what the converter is doing.
    Kurt K (e-mail)
    SCCoA Member #: 443
    '92 SC AOD -- 11.521s @ 116.748mph, 2.0 AR power
    . . . . . . . . . -- 13.547s @ 101.01 mph, only w/ bolt-ons
    '95 SC 5spd -- All Stock, except 17" Simmons wheels.
    '90 SC 35th Anny 5spd -- 3rd owner, 16k miles
    2 '89 XR7 5spd's -- on their way out, really!

  9. #24
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    Maybe "flash" isn't the correct term for what I was describing. It's supposed to be 3500 stall with direct drive deleted, same as Kurt's from Alan Brown. I can hold the brakes real hard and get close to 3300 rpm before tires start spinning or pushing the car forward. When hitting it hard from idle it's instantly at 5400-5500 rpm but tires are also spinning so maybe they spin at 3500 and just bust the tires loose causing it to spike up to 5500. Either way it's annoying because it feels too slippy when cruising. The 3500 stall converter in my old turbo car felt much less slippy cruising and I could get it up to 3300 rpm on the trans brake. It was also made by Alan but that transmission and converter was built to handle a lot more power.

    David
    1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
    2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat...............707HP/650TQ

    My Garage

  10. #25
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    Foot braking you cant get full flash stall because most of the time the brakes wont hold the power back. Now if you're on a trans brake, full throttle, boost, and power, rpm is going to go way up there. With that said my flash or stall speed is what ever I have my 2 step to

  11. #26
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    If i didn't love how my art carr VB shifts i would be all over a trans-brake full manual valve body
    93 SC Red Auto 111k
    2013 Shootout Bracket ET First Place
    2015 Shootout Car Show Honerable Mention
    2016 Shootout Mod-1 First Place
    4.2, MPX, 3.73s Built AOD
    12.70@107.2
    Coming soon 11.xxx

  12. #27
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    Kurt, you are perceiving correctly. True stall speed isn't a fixed #, it does vary based on load and leverage and for most of us at the track, datalogging speed sensor activity vs. rpm is our best indicator. Part of fixing an incorrect stall speed is knowing exactly what stall speed you are seeing under the most ideal of conditions you can generate. In other words, track-trans brake stall rpm doesn't matter if you don't actually have or use one. And yes, you can break your converter if you try to make it stall with a trans brake higher than it is capable of holding.

    The other thing you need to know, if you think you are "blowing through" the converter, is what % of slippage you are seeing at WOT and peak rpm. I know mine has 13% slip at 6000rpm in 3rd based on my best estimates. It's high, but it's not unusual and it's consistent.

    I agree that if you have a converter that stalls even at the perfect rpm for drag racing use but you only drag race 2x a year then you are likely going to miss the mark and should compromise with a lower stall speed. For some of you if your converter really stalls that high then you probably can't even use overdrive on the street without basically cooking your transmissions or at least the fluid every 500 miles. Transmission fluid has a surprisingly short life when taken over 180 deg.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller View Post
    Ya thats why i tape mine down. People think its bc i dont have a moonroof seal (which is true) but its really to keep my roof from ripping off .
    Email me here.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by XR7 Dave View Post
    The other thing you need to know, if you think you are "blowing through" the converter, is what % of slippage you are seeing at WOT and peak rpm. I know mine has 13% slip at 6000rpm in 3rd based on my best estimates. It's high, but it's not unusual and it's consistent.
    So to calculate slippage, you would need to use the speed sensor and calculate the driveshaft speed based on gear ratio and tire size? Or am I missing something?
    Kurt K (e-mail)
    SCCoA Member #: 443
    '92 SC AOD -- 11.521s @ 116.748mph, 2.0 AR power
    . . . . . . . . . -- 13.547s @ 101.01 mph, only w/ bolt-ons
    '95 SC 5spd -- All Stock, except 17" Simmons wheels.
    '90 SC 35th Anny 5spd -- 3rd owner, 16k miles
    2 '89 XR7 5spd's -- on their way out, really!

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt K View Post
    So to calculate slippage, you would need to use the speed sensor and calculate the driveshaft speed based on gear ratio and tire size? Or am I missing something?
    First thing you need to do is calibrate your BE calculator for mph logging against your GPS, then datalog a full throttle 1/4 mile run and calculate effective rear end gear ratio vs. theoretic. The difference is your slip %.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller View Post
    Ya thats why i tape mine down. People think its bc i dont have a moonroof seal (which is true) but its really to keep my roof from ripping off .
    Email me here.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by XR7 Dave View Post
    First thing you need to do is calibrate your BE calculator for mph logging against your GPS, then datalog a full throttle 1/4 mile run and calculate effective rear end gear ratio vs. theoretic. The difference is your slip %.
    So is that a table in BE? I knew something had to change since my 11.52 datalog only shows 103 mph and I know it was 118. When I replace the 103 with 118, I calculated about a 15% loss. However, I can see that have BE calibrated will be a lot easier than digging out all of my timeslips.
    Kurt K (e-mail)
    SCCoA Member #: 443
    '92 SC AOD -- 11.521s @ 116.748mph, 2.0 AR power
    . . . . . . . . . -- 13.547s @ 101.01 mph, only w/ bolt-ons
    '95 SC 5spd -- All Stock, except 17" Simmons wheels.
    '90 SC 35th Anny 5spd -- 3rd owner, 16k miles
    2 '89 XR7 5spd's -- on their way out, really!

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