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Thread: Brakes

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    382
    Quote Originally Posted by smac View Post
    So the hydraulic pump motor relay is down. WHERE do I get one? None of the auto parts stores or dealerships have them.
    Good afternoon

    Rock Auto is one source. NAPA is another.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Bossier City, LA
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    Quote Originally Posted by smac View Post
    So the hydraulic pump motor relay is down. WHERE do I get one? None of the auto parts stores or dealerships have them.
    RockAuto ( http://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/m...abs+relay,3008 )

    Also, with the part numbers there, you can check Amazon or Ebay and see if they have them.

    Plus, there's other relays that'll work but just won't be the "proper colors". Specifically, that brown; the other two relays over there on my 1991 Cougar both plug and work, but will confuse the bejebus out of people who try to troubleshoot with the book *grins*

    RwP

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    89
    https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...abs+relay,3008

    So either of these will work to replace the hydraulic pump motor relay? Just plug and go?

  4. #34
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    Jul 2005
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    382
    Quote Originally Posted by smac View Post
    https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...abs+relay,3008

    So either of these will work to replace the hydraulic pump motor relay? Just plug and go?
    Good evening


    Just my two cents. Stick with Standard Motor Products. The Company has a good product track record. Ultra Power is a China based. Just plug and go.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Salem, OR
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    Quote Originally Posted by sam jones View Post
    Stick with Standard Motor Products.
    SMP manufactures approximately half of the parts it sells; most of the rest it imports from China. Nothing to be afraid of either way.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    89

    Update

    Relay arrived, plugged it in, no change. I did notice something different before I replaced the relay: the abs light is off and only the red brake light is on (maybe the abs bulb burned out?).

    All fuses are good. Pedal is still firm. Brake fluid reservoir is overfull (probably from the discharged accumulator). Same symptoms as the bad accumulator issue but for these two: a) the pump does not run in the key on position, and b) when tested, the four pin plug reads 0. Which led me to believe relay...to start with. Isn't the relay though, apparently.

    Thoughts?

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Dallas, TX
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    My 1990 ABS light always come on during the initial check of the system ( key on), then it turns off after few seconds. If yours does not come on at all, yes the light bulb might be burned.
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=irrkJRIqtmA.

    FYI. I had issues with my ABS system for two years. Come to found that the brand new relay I bought fron Rock Auto was not correct. In addition, 4 out of the 5 computers I had were also bad. End up using an original relay, from my other tbird, and new computer to fix the issue.
    I will check when I get home, but I think one of the relay from the ride control can also be used
    Last edited by Falcon20x; 06-06-2017 at 06:42 PM.
    Check out my 1993 White Auto SC page for video on how to ..
    1990 35th anniversary SC restoration project
    1990 Blue Auto SC

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
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    89
    So as it stands right now, the original relays are in place due to (probably) not being bad. The four pin plug reads 0, pedal is hard, no abs light period, red brake light is on, and pump doesn't run. Bad pressure switch and possibly shot abs light bulb?

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
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    382
    Quote Originally Posted by smac View Post
    Relay arrived, plugged it in, no change. I did notice something different before I replaced the relay: the abs light is off and only the red brake light is on (maybe the abs bulb burned out?).

    All fuses are good. Pedal is still firm. Brake fluid reservoir is overfull (probably from the discharged accumulator). Same symptoms as the bad accumulator issue but for these two: a) the pump does not run in the key on position, and b) when tested, the four pin plug reads 0. Which led me to believe relay...to start with. Isn't the relay though, apparently.

    Thoughts?
    Good afternoon

    First check to make sure the the ABS light is off the pump is working. I would do the following:

    De-pressurize the system. Key off. Engine off. Depress and release pedal at least 25 times. Pedal should be rock hard.

    Next key on/ engine off. The pump should come on. ABS/BRAKES lights should go out before the motor stops running.


    If the pump is NOT running do the following:

    Remove, inspect, clean and re-install the pressure switch and the pump relay connector. Note there are three relays located on the passenger side of the engine fire wall.

    1. A/C WOT. 2. ABS relay. 3. Pump Motor Relay. The ABS and Pump relays can not be switched for troubleshooting.

    Try a Key on/engine off attempt for the pump to work. If unsuccessful turn key off.

    Get socket extension(s) and or pipe long enough to reach the pump motor.

    Key on/engine off. Tap the extension(s) and or pipe against the pump motor with a hammer. Suspect the pump motor if the system now pressurizes. Reason. If the pump motor starts from striking, the vibration indicate the motor is on it way out. Best to change with the TEVES unit is removed and accessible from the car. I would change the pressure switch for good measure as preventive maintenance due to the age of the TEVES units.

    If the pump motor is working, the ABS light if off but the BRAKE light is on check the following:

    - Servicing.

    - Low brake reservior sensor or connector.

    - Brake proportion sensor or connector. Jack and supporting of front end is required.

    - Air in the brake system. Brake caliber and or pad issue.





    See attachment for addition troubleshooting information.


    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=...96882874217609



    Good Luck.

  10. #40
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    Dec 2007
    Location
    Salem, OR
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    Good info, Sam, but I'd add..

    - If you tap on the motor and it comes alive, the multi-wire ignition switch on the steering column may be the actual culprit, and the motor may be fine - ask me how I know I'd replace the switch first, just to check, as the cost and effort to install a new one is low, where motors are now made from unobtainium, and require R & R'ing the entire master cylinder to swap out, if you do get lucky and locate a good one.

    - As for the pressure switch...given how difficult it can be to R & R, if it's original, I'd not bother to put it back in. I'd have a new one on hand.


    smac:
    As for the hard pedal and no light(s), I'd wonder if one or more brake hoses have failed and swelled internally, causing a blockage.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Madison, Ohio
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    Don't have the service manual in front of me right now, but there is a sequence for the ABS light when you key on. Depending on what happens there will point to your problem. So check the manual or have someone post a copy of the diagnostics page. That will help you decide where to look.

    My *thoughts* are that you may have a failing pump and it may have blown the ABS fuse. Generally I think if there is any ABS fault (obviously since there is no pressure), the light should be on. The light not on makes me think blown fuse. Why would the fuse blow since replaced the accumulator and relays? Probably excessive current draw. When you last heard the pump run, did it sound happy or did it sound like it was working a bit too hard?

    If it does come down to it, you can change both the pressure switch and the pump with the unit in the car. Not easy, but you can do it. The pumps can be rebuilt or there are used ones out there. I have a slew of used systems, I'm sure some of them probably have a good pump. You can test the pump by simply hotwiring it at the connector.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller View Post
    Ya thats why i tape mine down. People think its bc i dont have a moonroof seal (which is true) but its really to keep my roof from ripping off .
    Email me here.

  12. #42
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    Jan 2016
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    89
    The two fuses are both good (under the hood and in the driver side footwell area). Is there another fuse in a different spot?

    Last time I heard the pump running it sounded nice and strong. Exactly how it has for the five years I've had the car.

    I assume I hotwire the pump at the pressure switch?

    Does anyone have part numbers for the pressure switch and the ignition switch, in case I end up need to get one or both?

  13. #43
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    Dec 2007
    Location
    Salem, OR
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    Quote Originally Posted by smac View Post
    I assume I hotwire the pump at the pressure switch?
    To test the pressure switch...

    See figure 5 here for the pressure switch connector pin outs: http://www.sccoia.org/articles/anti-...raking-system/

    Unplug the ABS Pressure Switch at connector (beneath the master cylinder...see drawings at that same link) then ground pin #4. Turn key to on. Pump should run if switch is bad.

    Does anyone have part numbers for the pressure switch and the ignition switch, in case I end up need to get one or both?
    I bought mine via ebay - ACDelco 25530882 GM Original Equipment Brake Pressure Warning Switch, $USD122 new shipped - exact connector fit on my '90SC. Also bought the special socket used.

  14. #44
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    May 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by smac View Post
    The two fuses are both good (under the hood and in the driver side footwell area). Is there another fuse in a different spot?

    Last time I heard the pump running it sounded nice and strong. Exactly how it has for the five years I've had the car.

    I assume I hotwire the pump at the pressure switch?

    Does anyone have part numbers for the pressure switch and the ignition switch, in case I end up need to get one or both?
    Try rocking the switch back/forth. Also take the steering column covers off and inspect the ignition switch. Should be no visible gap between the plastic and metal portions of the switch.

    You can hotwire the pump at the pump motor by disconnecting the motor and applying 12v to one of the grey/red wire-pins, on the motor side of course. , and ground to the pin immediately next to it. (OK... I'll throw you a bone here... the "flat" side of the connector.. thats a 12V pin). Don't worry about the other 2 pins, they are redundant. Im 95% sure it will run for you and then you just have to figure out why power, isn't making to the relay... the fuse block runs the motor power line to the relay. The pressure switch activates the relay.

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Posts
    89
    I did test the connector the relay plugs into, and it read 10v DC. So this would mean that there is power getting to the relay? Which would mean the pressure switch is not faulty?

    I feel like I keep remembering little details that would be helpful that l left out before.

    Details so far (this is for the second abs issue in this thread; the first was resolved with the new accumulator):

    Abs light (it's on, I suspect yours truly is guilty of incorrect troubleshooting), brake light, hard pedal
    Fuses (CLUSTER, ABS, ABS pump, and ABS module) are good
    10v DC at pump relay (for what it's worth)
    No reading at four-pin plug (unless I measured it wrong )

    Haven't had enough time to really do anything but check fuses and test connectors, and don't have money to pay someone who does. Thanks for all the help so far, guys!

    I hope to do some hot wiring and stuff this weekend.
    Last edited by smac; 06-08-2017 at 01:47 PM.

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