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Thread: DrFishbone Engine Build Thread 2017

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
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    Greenville, IN
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    DrFishbone Engine Build Thread 2017

    As some had guessed a little while back, Dave had a previously build motor in his shop that needed a little finishing work and an owner. While all I was looking for originally was some parts to fix/upgrade a spare block I have in storage, I ended up being sold on the idea of having someone else do it...being that it required even less effort on my part up-front, Dave's previously-build shortblock fit my timeframe well. I wanted to share the pictures from his SCUI FB page here, since several of you all figured it out already!! I'll be looking for some advice on finishing this build up into another well-paired overall package.

    As of today, I haven't taken my old motor out of the car just yet....it's disassembled down to the shortblock, with the failed crank and any further carnage concealed in the oil pan. The new shortblock is still bagged up and the heads are boxed up ready for final fitment and assembly. I hope to start working on it more seriously in the next few weeks.

    Old engine (July 2009 - Oct 2016)

    - Driven dependably and continuously from Summer 2009 through Fall 2016
    - Started at around 240rwhp in 2009...dyno'ed at 301rwhp in 2012...probably ended up around 360-375rwhp in 2016 (based on 1/4mi)
    - Ran 13.9 1/4mi in 2009...12.5 1/4mi in 2016
    - Survived me learning to tune! (or did it? lol)

    1) Big-Company Reman... supposed to have about 60k miles since rebuild and who knows how many originally...crank had been turned down a bit, which probably partly contributed to it's failure the week after the 2016 Shootout (I have a couple of theories that I won't get into here that go along with that...related to fuel choice, tuning, and previous problems in 2015...maybe as the teardown continues )...I had gone through it in 2008-2009 and replaced all bearings, timing set, piston rings, seals, Felpro gaskets etc.

    2) CompCams regrind camshaft - 212/218 .520" overall lift, hydraulic lifter

    3) '95 connecting rods

    4) Windage Tray

    5) ARP Head Studs

    6) Ported intake runners as far down as I could reach with my Dremel at the time and did some de-shrouding on a pair of good SC heads...installed Compcams 942 springs with factory valves 3-angle valve job performed after porting...

    7) (BAD IDEA) - Reused lifters that had been included when it was originally rebuilt (one failed in 2015...just before the Shootout)

    8) (BAD IDEA) Did not replace the oil pressure relief spring/cup


    Now for the new....

    New Engine (April 2017 - ?)

    1) Low mile original shortblock rebuilt, machined, assembled at SCUI

    2) Balanced / Blueprinted / Smoothed crankshaft

    3) Wiseco Custom Forged Pistons

    4) SCAT H-Beam Rods

    5) ARP Main Studs

    6) Windage Tray

    7) 3.8L Mustang Oil Pan (6qt)

    8) 224/224 Solid Roller Custom Camshaft

    9) SCUI Custom Double-Roller Timing Set w/Torrington Thrust Bearing

    10) SCUI (Finished) Ported heads w/high-lift springs and upgraded rocker studs/guideplates

    11) Scorpion Roller Rockers

    12) Solid Lifters & 3/8" Pushrods

    13) MLS Head Gaskets



    Last edited by DrFishbone; 05-16-2017 at 01:27 PM.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  2. #2
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    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Va. Beach,Va.
    Posts
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    Nice, should be able to reach the 11's..................
    SCCOA Member #2406
    '94 SC AUTO - $$$$ Pit
    http://www.sccoa.com/forums/garage_v..._vehicle&id=19

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Greenville, IN
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    We'll see I guess!

    I may be held back significantly this year...need to decide/determine whether I can keep running E85 or if I need to go back to gasoline.

    High-impedance injectors bigger than 80#'s are a bit pricey....then there's the rest of the fuel system! My injector duty cycle on E85 with the 80#'s PLUS 50/50 alcohol injection was in the ~85% range before.

    E85, injectors, pump(s), fuel lines -VS- lower the boost and run gasoline
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Paoli Indiana
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    4,549
    Quote Originally Posted by DrFishbone View Post
    We'll see I guess!

    I may be held back significantly this year...need to decide/determine whether I can keep running E85 or if I need to go back to gasoline.

    High-impedance injectors bigger than 80#'s are a bit pricey....then there's the rest of the fuel system! My injector duty cycle on E85 with the 80#'s PLUS 50/50 alcohol injection was in the ~85% range before.

    E85, injectors, pump(s), fuel lines -VS- lower the boost and run gasoline

    Race gas and trailer it!
    93 SC Red Auto 111k
    2013 Shootout Bracket ET First Place
    2015 Shootout Car Show Honerable Mention
    2016 Shootout Mod-1 First Place
    4.2, 2.3 Whipple, 3.73s AOD
    307rwhp 12.70@107.2 (MPX)
    395rwhp Whipple 11.741@117.5mph

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Roanoke, Virginia
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    3,182
    Guess it never dawned on me that you were still running a stock bottom end. Looks like you're going to have a great platform to build off of now.

    -Tim
    Current Collection
    1994 Thunderbird SC - Auto converted to 5spd

    1995 Thunderbird SC - Auto

    1994 Thunderbird SC - 5spd
    1989 Thunderbird SC - 5spd - Daily Driver
    1990 Thunder/Cougar XR7 - 5spd
    1994 Thunderbird SC - 3v Project

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Greenville, IN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob_Royer View Post
    Race gas and trailer it!
    I got spoilt on E85 I guess...this is the backup plan though.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Groth View Post
    Guess it never dawned on me that you were still running a stock bottom end. Looks like you're going to have a great platform to build off of now.

    -Tim
    I think it really held up pretty well for the past several years. I don't think the crank would have broken if it 1) had not been fiddled with and was original and 2) I hadn't gotten greedy with timing on the E85.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    85
    How much timing and boost were you running on the E85? I'd like to convert my car over at some point in the future but will probably stick to Sunoco E98 just so the alcohol content is consistent. My biggest problem with tuning my car is that I know nothing about the timing curve that the stock computer uses.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Broncojohnny View Post
    How much timing and boost were you running on the E85? I'd like to convert my car over at some point in the future but will probably stick to Sunoco E98 just so the alcohol content is consistent. My biggest problem with tuning my car is that I know nothing about the timing curve that the stock computer uses.
    Almost 20psi and I think I maxed the timing out at 28...I had been running 24-26 in the previous year...I now suspect that even that was too high, but 28 certainly was.

    Concerning E85/E98 fuel mixtures - it's good to check and know what you're actually getting either way...especially if racing/dynoing. If the gasoline content is a little higher, I really don't think normally driving will yield any noticeable effects.

    I don't know if you will drive the car in the winter, but expect the cranking / startup fuel changes to be a little tricky! I finally got mine where i could start it in the winter by the second attempt (spring/summer/fall started almost instantly), but it seemed like such a fine line between having too much and too little fuel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Broncojohnny View Post
    My biggest problem with tuning my car is that I know nothing about the timing curve that the stock computer uses.
    Are you unfamiliar with tuning? You aren't suggesting that your conversion will happen without a real tune, are you?
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2016
    Posts
    85
    Quote Originally Posted by DrFishbone View Post
    Almost 20psi and I think I maxed the timing out at 28...I had been running 24-26 in the previous year...I now suspect that even that was too high, but 28 certainly was.

    Concerning E85/E98 fuel mixtures - it's good to check and know what you're actually getting either way...especially if racing/dynoing. If the gasoline content is a little higher, I really don't think normally driving will yield any noticeable effects.

    I don't know if you will drive the car in the winter, but expect the cranking / startup fuel changes to be a little tricky! I finally got mine where i could start it in the winter by the second attempt (spring/summer/fall started almost instantly), but it seemed like such a fine line between having too much and too little fuel.



    Are you unfamiliar with tuning? You aren't suggesting that your conversion will happen without a real tune, are you?
    Thanks for the info on your timing, good to know.

    My situation is unique because I run a junkyard car (see my thread below) that only needs enough start up and part throttle manners to make it through the burnout box. I have ran it on pump E85 that tested at about 75% ethanol before but I could not get the full throttle AFR to a level where I felt comfortable even with very high fuel pressure. It did have some problems starting on the E85 but they were manageable.

    I am not unfamiliar with tuning, I am just trying to get at those big gains from ethanol by increasing timing. Right now this computer is a black box to me, I have no idea how much is to be gained by doing a tune because I have no idea what the timing is. If this was a small block ford things would be much easier and I could advance timing and run the E85 with some poor part throttle manners and hard starting as side effects. From what I have gathered though, there is no way to add timing to these engines without a tune (assuming you have unplugged the knock sensor and are dangling the ACT sensor). In a EEC SBF you can just turn the distributor. I wish that were an option here.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Greenville, IN
    Posts
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    Extremely slow moving, I know.... test fit the heads and intake and then torqued the heads down on the new MLS gaskets. Dropped the lifters in and installed the rockers....determined my ideal pushrod length is 8.050". Now just need to order the new set.

    Also found out my not-so-old oil pump was ruined. Looks like a few chunks of metal made their way through after the crank broke.

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    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Greenville, IN
    Posts
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    Well, technically I've made a little more progress than pictured....I've also been working on cleaning stuff....I hate that part....until it's done anyway.

    I need to work on putting in a pool soon. That way I'll have somewhere to cool off when I'm working in the garage this summer. lol

    Might try to pull the old engine on Friday and/or finish up the parts cleaning.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Greenville, IN
    Posts
    4,256
    Got side-tracked by a couple of family projects.

    Putting in an above-ground pool (PAIN IN THE BUTT!!!!) And rebuilding the old sandbox that my dad built for me, my brother and sister over 30 years ago.


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    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

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