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Thread: DrFishbone Engine Build Thread 2017

  1. #91
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    7,333
    How are you running your PCV you got that cab style breather thingie how does it work.
    1994 Supercoupe 5spd Custom, first to buy a 2.1L Big Bore Kenne Bell Twin Screw for an SC
    Old numbers on 1.7l AR SC: 415WHP off the bottle-12.2535 @112.18 off the bottle. Best TQ to date 516ft/lbs, New numbers 480whp on dream crusher.
    1990 35th 5spd 2011 Carlisle 1st place class winner. 12.9@108MPH 1.9
    2013 GT/CS 5.0L FRPP 2.3l Whipplecharged family weekend car
    2005 SAAB 9-3 Aero 2.0L TURBO Work Mule

  2. #92
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Paoli Indiana
    Posts
    4,515
    You can do it! I am looking forward to racing you this year so get it done!
    93 SC Red Auto 111k
    2013 Shootout Bracket ET First Place
    2015 Shootout Car Show Honerable Mention
    2016 Shootout Mod-1 First Place
    4.2, 2.3 Whipple, 3.73s AOD
    307rwhp 12.70@107.2 (MPX)
    395rwhp Whipple 11.741@117.5mph

  3. #93
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Greenville, IN
    Posts
    4,227
    Quote Originally Posted by ricardoa1 View Post
    How are you running your PCV you got that cab style breather thingie how does it work.
    Old school magic, Ricardo.

    PCV system is gone...I wanted to experiment with this. I'm sure there are others that have tried it in the club (Kevin Leitem is the only one I know of for sure though...looked like Casey might have some on his monster too), but it's an alternative to the PCV system / catch can, valve cover breathers, etc. Crankcase evacuation.

    Honestly, I wanted to test it out, then start talk about it...I wanted to try it on my own to get the thrill of experimentation more than anything.
    Surprisingly no one has really asked about it till now! It's simple and very cheap. It probably would not work with alot of street cars though. It has a tube and check valve inserted into exhaust that uses exhaust flow to generate vacumm via the Venturi effect.

    Two big drawbacks that I'm aware of for most cars (maybe even mine):
    1) it requires an un-restrictive, high-flow exhaust. I have basically have four straight-through mufflers (glass-packed style) and an x-pipe, and that's it. Obviously, there is at least a little restriction here, so that makes me feel like I'm experimenting....lol.
    2) It's not emissions-legal....but us rednecks in Indiana don't have to worry about passing testing / inspections and my cat's .... fell off.....awhile back anyway.
    3) Fitment might be a little tough on our cars. I was redoing the FMIC anyway, so was able accommodate the trickier one on the driver's side.
    4)Others???

    BUT the pros:

    1) slight vacuum whenever there is exhaust flow, increases with increasing exhaust flow....check valve prevents exhaust gas from backflowing, so you always have your crankcase vacuum vented (like PCV system)..assuming there is enough vacuum at idle anyway. Since I have a solid-lift motor now, I wanted to be able to open up the crankcase ventilation somehow without spending alot of money on a heavy pump nor have a catch can to mess with (not to mention, they're not cheap)
    2) This is cheap!...if you can install yourself, it's like $40 for everything you need
    3) I was able to delete my valve cover manifold baffles, since the cap is baffled. I've heard of the modified ones (for rocker clearance) coming loose
    4) You can remove your PCV system....AND keep oil out of your intake tract (eliminate the mess, but more importantly, not add to the factors that can lead to detonation)...AND potentially free up a few ponies at high rpm (should act like a weak vacuum pump for the crankcase)
    5) It's different

    So anyways, I'm doing it....it's too late to change now.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  4. #94
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Greenville, IN
    Posts
    4,227
    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob_Royer View Post
    You can do it! I am looking forward to racing you this year so get it done!
    I've thought about sandbagging the work so that I can sit out this year...give me time to make sure I can beat you next time.....lol. That Whipple is a trump card though, I think.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  5. #95
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Greenville, IN
    Posts
    4,227
    So...Dad came out to help me Monday night - I had planned to finish the IC tube routing and get it tacked together. Instead, I was in worry mode...worried one of the bends wouldn't fit under the hood, worried the crankcase breather was in the way, worried the tubes would rub everywhere...so we spent about 2hrs just staring and measuring things....made a couple of cuts and then had to quit for the night. I let it simmer in my brain yesterday morning and afternoon and went right back at it yesterday night and got almost all of the tubes fitted up. Just have a tiny short section to cut and clean up.

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    If we can get good welds with the SS Flux core MIG wire, this should look very slick.

    New goal for start-up is Friday late afternoon. Still have to finish.....
    - IC Tubes
    - Radiator & IC brackets
    - Modify FP Wiring
    - Install Cam Stalk
    - Add Driver Evac Tube
    - Install Driveshaft
    - Fill transmission, install shifter
    - Reinstall Interior stuff I took apart
    - Install Fuel Tank
    - Weld Vent tubes
    - Install Exhaust
    - Install header panel, bumper, etc. (hopefully it all fits with the wiring re-route)
    - Bleed Brakes & leak-check
    - Buy several gallons of E85
    - Finish new radiator hoses, Fill Radiator
    - Check Work
    - Clean Fuel filter

    I have a feeling there will be a couple of leaks....brakes, power steering, coolant. That's my main worry...I think she'll start right up though....hopefully the tune is close enough for the first 20 miles of break-in.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  6. #96
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Greenville, IN
    Posts
    4,227
    Got a TON of stuff done this weekend, but still haven't started the car yet. Special thanks to Dan Thornsberry and Jacob helping on Thursday night!
    (Jacob was there till after midnight even!) Even though it was only hours of work you guys put in, I'm sure it saved me at least an entire day!

    Got the intercooler pipes welded up and was painfully reminded about the problems with flux wire...the flux from previous welds can create leaks when it's chipped away. The pipes had numerous pin-hole leaks, but would still hold pressure for several minutes. I spent all day on those pipes Friday...Dad helped me in the morning too. Friday evening, I finally drew the line and left them as is..."good enough" . So anyway, my welding experience with piping/tubing and stick welding, now flux-core MIG says, never do it again, unless you just can't go solid. The welds are going to look awful for the Shootout, but I've always been more about performance before looks anyway.....so please excuse the ugly welds....I'll clean them up and fix the remaining pinholes later.

    Got the exhaust, IC pipes, misc other things installed....all that's left is the driver's down-tube! I should be able to finish that tonight after picking up the trailer I will be borrowing. Right now, it looks like start-up Tuesday evening, barring any more hold-ups. Don't want to try it at night really

    Got the old laptop out and fired it up....BE still seems to like me....we'll see if it still likes the QH and my car tonight too, hopefully.

    I'm going to see what the AFR's look like with E85....I suspect I will be up the 90% duty cycle with the ratio that I want....looking at a log, last year I was at 91% @ 5600RPM and 10.6AFR. That was richer than I'd like though. I think between the fuel uncertainty, new engine, new transmission and other unknowns that come up when you don't drive a car for an entire year, I'll probably plan to de-tune it for now. If everything goes better than planned for start-up, maybe I'll try to whip up a new gasoline tune.

    A little disappointing....but still plan to be there and race.
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    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  7. #97
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    5,622
    That engine bay really cleaned up, Matt! Everything looks great! I apologize for not making it down to help, i've been doing some thrashing myself.

    I would be careful on corn with E85, it can really dilute the oil whenever trying to set an initial tune. I would figure fueling out with gas and whenever you get AFR sorted out on gas then go to E85. You dont want to start washing down your cylinders and hazing bearings. You'll want her breaking in nicely.

    I hope you have a great time, you put in some good work; I love that passion, son! DO WORK!
    1994 SC
    4.5L Twin Turbo SVO
    Project GTFD

  8. #98
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Greenville, IN
    Posts
    4,227
    Quote Originally Posted by CMac89 View Post
    That engine bay really cleaned up, Matt! Everything looks great! I apologize for not making it down to help, i've been doing some thrashing myself.

    I would be careful on corn with E85, it can really dilute the oil whenever trying to set an initial tune. I would figure fueling out with gas and whenever you get AFR sorted out on gas then go to E85. You dont want to start washing down your cylinders and hazing bearings. You'll want her breaking in nicely.

    I hope you have a great time, you put in some good work; I love that passion, son! DO WORK!
    Thanks Casey! No problem on making it down...thanks for the moral support. I hear ya on the wash-down possibility....maybe I'll intentionally lean-out the tune and work towards richening it.

    I would start-up with 93, but the tune started-up great for the last couple of years and ran great. I did not change the fuel system, except for the changing out the old AFPR with a stock FPR. It appeared the AFPR was set to behave as a stock one though.....got me thinking now though.....

    Intake is all the same, so MAF curve should be close.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  9. #99
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Greenville, IN
    Posts
    4,227
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    Except perhaps a couple of tune changes to avoid cylinder wash-down.... 100% ready for start-up and break-in tonight!
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  10. #100
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Woodbridge, VA
    Posts
    5,068
    Sweet coming bumper and hoodless!

    True ricer style! I like it!
    ~Chris
    SCCoA Member #1826
    Bettie Riding jack stands
    SCARlet on drag duty now

  11. #101
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Greenville, IN
    Posts
    4,227
    Just wait till you see my new mufflers! Embossed flames...95mm tailpipes....really fast looking!
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  12. #102
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Hamilton NJ
    Posts
    1,963
    Looking good Matt!!!!

    Glad the SC gods were in your favor buddy!!
    Tom Downs-member#2752
    MPX'd 90 SC Auto~bought Feb. 2012
    http://www.sccoa.com/forums/garage_v...vehicle&id=424

  13. #103
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Greenville, IN
    Posts
    4,227
    Couldn't get it started last night.

    I was beyond aggravated...I almost told the car "I hate you" for the first time since owning it in 2002....lol.

    So, trying to start normally, all I get is a "click" from the starter relay next to the battery.

    Battery
    Tried two different batteries - the original one in the car after dad had been using it in his pickup regularly and one out of our Taurus, which is daily-driven

    Battery Terminals
    Cleaned and eventually replaced both battery terminals. Cut the positive and negative leads for fresh wire to clamp down on.

    Battery Leads
    Cleaned / checked the ground at the engine mount and the positive connection at the starter relay. The battery leads at the new battery terminals have a light blackish coating on them....I sanded it off and used it anyway...in the past, this hasn't caused a problem.

    Starter
    Starter can be engaged and turn the motor over by touching a screwdriver from the large 12V post to the solenoid trigger wire. Trigger wire is clean and tight. I tried a spare starter - no change. There is a constant 12V between the two large posts on the starter.

    Starter Relay
    This is where things get weird....

    Large bottom post - 12V constant, small trigger wire gets 12V when the ignition key is turned to "start", other post DOES NOT see 12V when the ignition switch is turned to start, but.....I tried 2 others, one of which was known to be good just a couple of months ago. I tested 4 total starter relays off the car and none of them ever where continuous between the two large posts.

    We painted the engine bay, so grounds are certainly suspect. I sanded the paint away beneath the relay and I think all of the other engine grounds. I may need to check more thoroughly. I did run a separate ground from the starter relay mounting point to the negative battery cable though, so I think that is ruled out.

    Jumping the relay....If I jump the two large posts with a screwdriver, the starter engages and turns the engine over. If I jump the constant 12V to the small trigger wire, the relay only clicks.


    I think with this testing I have isolated the problem to the starter relay...but really....3 or 4 bad relays?! The other possibility is that one of the high-current power or ground connections isn't adequate. On the meter, there is continuity, but maybe the connection isn't clean enough. It's interesting that jumping the starter or the starter relay works fine though.....


    Thoughts?

    I really doubt it could be neutral safety or clutch switch...or ignition switch. I can bypass all of that and go straight from the starter relay trigger to the positive battery terminal and still all I get is a "click" from the starter relay. For some reason, 3 starter relays aren't making contact between the constant 12V and the switched 12V posts.


    Normally, I'd be fine jumping it for the temporary, but I need to break this engine in right....now is NOT the time to risk even getting distracted after start-up.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  14. #104
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Greenville, IN
    Posts
    4,227
    Despite trying 3 and testing 4 starter solenoids, I'm going to pick up another on the way home. Probably some new battery leads too.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  15. #105
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    7,333
    Keep at it Matt, the clutch switch is easy to jump and eliminate, there is no alarm system correct? Since I removed mine the starter fires the car right up, no clicking anymore. So leads me to believe that you have a ground issue somewhere.
    1994 Supercoupe 5spd Custom, first to buy a 2.1L Big Bore Kenne Bell Twin Screw for an SC
    Old numbers on 1.7l AR SC: 415WHP off the bottle-12.2535 @112.18 off the bottle. Best TQ to date 516ft/lbs, New numbers 480whp on dream crusher.
    1990 35th 5spd 2011 Carlisle 1st place class winner. 12.9@108MPH 1.9
    2013 GT/CS 5.0L FRPP 2.3l Whipplecharged family weekend car
    2005 SAAB 9-3 Aero 2.0L TURBO Work Mule

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