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Thread: DrFishbone Engine Build Thread 2017

  1. #106
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    Apr 2002
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricardoa1 View Post
    Keep at it Matt, the clutch switch is easy to jump and eliminate, there is no alarm system correct? Since I removed mine the starter fires the car right up, no clicking anymore. So leads me to believe that you have a ground issue somewhere.
    Yeah - like I said though, I can bypass the ignition switch and all of the safety switches...so I don't think it's any of those....they SEEM to be working.

    Ground issue though....very possible.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj ¦ RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? ¦ Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  2. #107
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    Jan 2003
    Location
    Woodbridge, VA
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    5,084
    If the relay clicks and nothing happens, but you can short it with a screw driver and the engine turns the relay has to be bad on the inside. As long as you're not shorting the cables, but the relay lugs.

    It is very weird that 4 would be bad tho.
    ~Chris
    SCCoA Member #1826
    Bettie Riding jack stands
    SCARlet on drag duty now

  3. #108
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Boston, MA
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    7,340
    Crris the early cars with the fender relay is a much better system than the weak later models. It doesn’t take a large charge to energize the solenoid.

    Chasing electrical issues stinks. Too bad you are against a clock.
    1994 Supercoupe 5spd Custom, first to buy a 2.1L Big Bore Kenne Bell Twin Screw for an SC
    Old numbers on 1.7l AR SC: 415WHP off the bottle-12.2535 @112.18 off the bottle. Best TQ to date 516ft/lbs, New numbers 480whp on dream crusher.
    1990 35th 5spd 2011 Carlisle 1st place class winner. 12.9@108MPH 1.9
    2013 GT/CS 5.0L FRPP 2.3l Whipplecharged family weekend car
    2005 SAAB 9-3 Aero 2.0L TURBO Work Mule

  4. #109
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    Greenville, IN
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLOWN38 View Post
    If the relay clicks and nothing happens, but you can short it with a screw driver and the engine turns the relay has to be bad on the inside. As long as you're not shorting the cables, but the relay lugs.
    That's what I would think, but....

    Quote Originally Posted by BLOWN38 View Post
    It is very weird that 4 would be bad tho.
    ...it doesn't make sense! lol

    Usually, if it doesn't make sense, it's grounding. Grounding is where electrical turds come from.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj ¦ RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? ¦ Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  5. #110
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Greenville, IN
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    4,251
    Ohhhh....lots of updates that many of you are familiar with via FB and Shootout war stories....but to capture on here too....

    After I got the starter relay replaced, that fixed all of the starting issues. Turns out that all four of the relays I had must have some corrison built up on the contact internally. The one in the car would never make electrical contact and the others that I tested wouldn't either...except one would, if I triggered it several times.

    So then, startup....

    Car started instantly, like I'd never parked it...let alone put in a new motor, etc. Tune isn't spot-on, but was as I expected - good enough to start the car and run well. Power steering was non-existent due to needing bled badly. I should've done this first, but really wanted to get the car on the road. I could hear alot of blower whine...even more that I would expect....maybe just because the hood was off....oh well...lets take it down the road!

    I made it 1/4mi with maybe 5lbs boost max and an intercooler pipe blew off....whoops! I didn't want to break the clamps, so they were all too loose to hold the boost after warming up a little. Tightened all though and got that fixed. After a couple of miles, the car started missing pretty badly....pulled over and found a plug wire was working it's way off....I got dielectric grease all over the porcelain on the plugs, so I assume when the air trapped inside the plug boot got warmed up and expanded, it started pushing boots off. So I decided to get it back home...on the way back, I heard a slight "pop" sound and then white smoke out the back...lots of it. You can guess what I instantly thought....

    Got the car parked and immediately noticed there was coolant all over the engine bay....started to get hopeful that it wasn't a headgasket or intake gasket.....upon looking more, I found the front passenger side freeze/expansion plug was missing! *sigh* it was about 8pm on Thursday night, and I was bent on making sure it was ready for the Shootout!! Ran to Autozone and picked up a couple of different plugs to repair it. Got home and got the motor jacked up and the motor mount out of the way and got it changed quickly....cool Wiped off all of the spark plugs and got some of the grease out of the boots and I also thought I would get the lower front shock mount taken care of, so I took the control arm off the car and pressed the old out and new one in on Friday morning. Friday morning....put the arm back on (almost broke my piky while doing so!!), filled the radiator with mostly distilled water and started it back up...took it out and drove it for 15minutes or so....popped another IC pipe (forgot to re-tighten after taking a pipe off)....fixed that and drove it some more. Car was running pretty good and was starting to feel strong on the bigger pulls! Got close to home and figured I'd do one more lap of break-in, then water spewed up somewhere out of the engine bay all over the windshield, etc. ...sigh.....short trip back home!

    Turned out that a 2nd freeze plug popped out....this time behind the driver's accessory bracket! Is this going to be a trend!?

    Picked up another one on Friday morning and delayed getting packed for the Shootout...got the 2nd plug replaced and took it out on the road one more time. Ran okay, but it was apparent that the tune needed some work in the part-throttle, wide-open throttle range...no biggie, I'll check the tune and adjust! None of the datalogs were saved. apparently, when I "checked" the checkbox telling BE to save the logs, and using the spacebar to start/stop the logging (like I always do), instead of hitting start/stop, I was just checking/unchecking the box!!! But on the bright side, I got it home without blowing coolant everywhere. Anyway, it was 3:30pm by then and we were going to be missing some of the social activities at the Shootout, so I reluctantly agreed to leave it home.

    Racing was cancelled on Sunday anyway though.........glad I left it home in that aspect!

    So last night, I finally got back out to messing with it and got discouraged. 5th gear in the new-to-me transmission won't engage without grinding...there is no "stop" or any physical feedback before grinding, so I wonder if the synchro isn't shot...maybe a shift linkage problem? I checked the synchros as best I could and they all had about 0.8mm or clearance...so they should be good. Anyway, it's gotta come out to even look at it. Concerning the freeze plug drama, I was told that I should pull the motor and replace with new plugs and red loctite. It appears that Permatex gasket-maker was used previously, but it looks like it may have never sat-up...still a little tacky rather than being hard.

    Oh yeah....when I pulled into the garage last night, I was followed by another white cloud....I didn't even feel like looking at it at that point and just walked away. I should probably have my "Spirit of the Shootout" award from this weekend recalled.

    It appears that the crankcase evacuation system is working a little too good too...lol.. I thought all along I might need to add some additional baffling, but had planned on trying it with factory valve cover baffles removed first, then add them when checking hot valve lash, if needed. I think they're needed! burns alot of oil!!! I think one or both of the chrome baffles get a healthy spray of oil out of the lifters, so the foam baffling gets soaked. I think with the factory baffles added back in, it will burn alot less. If it still burns too much, I have a plan B and Plan C....
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj ¦ RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? ¦ Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  6. #111
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Posts
    7,340
    Good job keeping the right attitude with the blows. Know that you are not alone and that we look forward to seeing the new results.
    1994 Supercoupe 5spd Custom, first to buy a 2.1L Big Bore Kenne Bell Twin Screw for an SC
    Old numbers on 1.7l AR SC: 415WHP off the bottle-12.2535 @112.18 off the bottle. Best TQ to date 516ft/lbs, New numbers 480whp on dream crusher.
    1990 35th 5spd 2011 Carlisle 1st place class winner. 12.9@108MPH 1.9
    2013 GT/CS 5.0L FRPP 2.3l Whipplecharged family weekend car
    2005 SAAB 9-3 Aero 2.0L TURBO Work Mule

  7. #112
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    3,659
    The obvious solution is to get a SVO motor.

  8. #113
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Roanoke, Virginia
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    3,180
    3 freeze plugs?! I blew 1 out on my fresh built motor a few years ago - I know that white cloud feeling .

    Keep at it, it will be worth it!

    -Tim
    Current Collection
    1994 Thunderbird SC - Auto converted to 5spd

    1995 Thunderbird SC - Auto

    1994 Thunderbird SC - 5spd
    1989 Thunderbird SC - 5spd - Daily Driver
    1990 Thunder/Cougar XR7 - 5spd
    1994 Thunderbird SC - 3v Project

  9. #114
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    Apr 2002
    Location
    Greenville, IN
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toms-SC View Post
    The obvious solution is to get a SVO motor.
    lol....SO much easier, right?
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj ¦ RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? ¦ Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  10. #115
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Greenville, IN
    Posts
    4,251
    I attended the funeral for my Uncle Bud yesterday…
    He was a car guy through and through – with a strong lean towards Fords! Over the past few years, I’ve increasingly noticed how similar he was to how my dad is... I’ve felt like my dad and Uncle Bud had a special connection, especially since my grandpa passed over 20 years ago. Driving past his house, it was really hard seeing his projects and loved ones he left behind filling his well-kept front yard.
    Here’s a picture of the car that he’s clung to since I’ve been around…a 1960’s International Scout with a Ford 289 V8 swap.

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    He suggested at one point being hauled to the cemetery in his casket in the back of the little Scout! We talked about it, but the bed is way too short. I’m not sure who all was in on it, but his casket got a little customization after the service! He was laid to rest with a small pair of needle nose pliers that he always carried in his pocket too.

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    In addition to his mechanical/engineering talent, he was a veteran and the heart of the town he’s lived in nearly (if not ALL) of his life. I’ve consulted him several times with some of my Thunderbird related questions and almost stopped by his place while I was breaking in this new motor a couple of weeks ago…I didn’t, but sure wish I had now. He always loved seeing and talking about different ideas..the more creative the better! I don’t know that I have ever driven through the 4-way stop in Palmyra without thinking about him, his brother, and friend. They would often sit at the intersection, chat and wave to the passerby’s that they recognized.
    So…in memory of Uncle Bud, I made sure that I spent some time in the garage last night. We didn’t really say anything about it, but I think my dad had the same idea as he worked on the old ’83 Mercury Capri RS (my sister’s now…used to belong to me). Uncle Bud would have liked it that way, I think.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj ¦ RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? ¦ Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  11. #116
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Greenville, IN
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    4,251
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Groth View Post
    3 freeze plugs?! I blew 1 out on my fresh built motor a few years ago - I know that white cloud feeling .

    Keep at it, it will be worth it!

    -Tim
    You were right, Tim.....

    So….last night, I managed to get the Innovate LC-1 to connect to BE again. So I definitely wanted to get some datalogs. I started looking over the car for signs that the 3rd freeze plug was leaking or even popped out, but to my surprise, they were all still intact and I didn’t see any coolant leaks anywhere! Radiator was still mostly full…some air had worked its way to the top of the radiator, so I topped it off. Looked like the system had pulled some fluid from the overflow tank for the first time last time it ran. I did find what all the smoke was from the other night though….one of the crankcase evacuation tubes had popped off (I think the clamp was just too loose), so oil mist was hitting the downpipe and smoking in the engine bay. Got that fixed too, checked the plugs to make sure nothing was awry with them….all looked good. So, the “white smoke” that frustrated me the other night was nothing to be concerned about. It was cool and starting to get foggy that night, so the normal exhaust steam coupled with the expected oil smoke made it look bad.
    Went to start it up and the battery was too weak…lol…..charged it for about 15minutes and that was enough to get it fired up.
    Turned on the datalog and the “ProGo” and set out on the road. Power Steering is getting better, but there is still air in there and it seems to get harder to turn when warmed up. There may still be a slight leak at one of the rack fittings too.
    Car ran good, warmed up fine, but still had the missing problem past ½ throttle. AFR’s were staying okay…didn’t feel like a spark plug was missing…so I did some “almost” WOT throttle runs. I rolled into WOT several times taking note that the car would start the soft-missing (as opposed to much more noticable mis-fire due to no spark) when I hit about 10psi…which cooresponds to about ½ throttle. Did a little thinking and thought I’d check on the fuel pressure….it idles a little low…28-29psi….hmmm… drove it some more and thought some more. I pulled the vacuum line off the FPR and it smelled like moonshine. even had some liquid fuel in it. SO…I think I have the missing figured out.
    The IC pipes still need sealed up the rest of the way…..at WOT, there’s enough boost to push some alcohol mist out in a a couple of places.
    Also noticed that reverse grinds often too.  I’m thinking that maybe something is wrong with the shift fork assembly…that’d be an easier fix hopefully. 1st-4th gears all shift great and I know that a couple of them have blockers with less clearance than the 5th gear one, so I think this transmission will be a winner once this issue is figured out.
    I still plan to pull the motor and transmission, replace all of the freeze plugs and figure out the transmission issue. BUT….I’m thinking I’ll get all these little things sorted out first. Should be able to fire it up afterward and be good-to-go.  I’d sure like to get it done before winter weather though…..
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj ¦ RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? ¦ Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  12. #117
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    Apr 2002
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    Greenville, IN
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    Some additional observation on the crankcase evacuation setup: while engine is decelerating in gear after a moderately hard run, I observed a decent-sized cloud of blue smoke…maybe this will get better as the engine breaks in a little more, but it is a little unnerving and embarassing honestly. It lasts about 5-10 seconds, I’d say. I’m going for Plan B - to re-install the modified factory valve cover baffles in hopes to reduce the amount of oil that gets sucked out and burned off. Time will tell how much it really is burning off, I guess…but really, assuming there’s not a problem somewhere, an up-sized PCV system would be using this much oil too…it would just end up in the intake tract and/or the combustion chamber (where it would be increasing the possibily of engine knock). A smaller or stock system would be venting less and trying to hold more crankcase pressure….until oil gaskets/seals start to relieve the additional pressure, that is.

    I suspect a catch can would greatly reduce the amount of oil that gets burned, but would add weight / plumbing…and cost if I didn’t already have one from the TBU Box-O-Crap auction! Lol I’m sure the systme would still work well even with an additional oil-seperator….it seems to be functioning great so far.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj ¦ RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? ¦ Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  13. #118
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Paoli Indiana
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    4,544
    Sorry about youre uncle my friend! I have seen him sitting in palmyra waving for years did not realize who he was! Did he also have a model t that was two front clips put together?? recognize that scout that is really cool!
    93 SC Red Auto 111k
    2013 Shootout Bracket ET First Place
    2015 Shootout Car Show Honerable Mention
    2016 Shootout Mod-1 First Place
    4.2, 2.3 Whipple, 3.73s AOD
    307rwhp 12.70@107.2 (MPX)
    395rwhp Whipple 11.741@117.5mph

  14. #119
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    Apr 2002
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    Greenville, IN
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    Thanks Jacob! If anyone was out there sitting, he was too! His brother, my Uncle Don lives in Palmyra a few blocks away and would sit out there with him too. He's a Ford / motorcycle / semi-truck guy. Also, their friend Johnny - he passed away earlier this year though. He owned that little eccentric restaurant across from Subway and that old T-Bird that's been sitting there for awhile. He also owned that '48 Lincoln mobster car that my dad had in the garage for awhile (don't know if you saw that one before they picked it up or not)....dad was planning to finish that for him this winter, but with Johnny gone and no close relatives, it was willed to a friend that is outside of dad's circle....supposed to be a big-shot hotrod guy that is finishing the restoration now.

    Yep - Uncle Bud built the red white and blue Comin' and Goin' Model T that he left out front too. Don't know if you ever got a close look, but it also had two steering wheels / steering racks...they faced opposite directions and were both functional! lol

    He had a "Old Men's Ford Club" rat-rod style Model T that he took to car shows too. He usually kept that one indoors though.

    He's owned lots of Ford's over the years - more than I'm aware of, I'm sure...but the Scout was his "SC" to us.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj ¦ RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? ¦ Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  15. #120
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    Location
    Greenville, IN
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    4,251
    He told be stories about drag racing the Scout at Ohio Valley....he about scared the crap out of himself by not thinking to address the brakes after the 289 was in...lol He always told me that story when I'd talk about drag racing the SC.

    He was something like the grounds-keeper at the Salem Speedway for several years too. He used the Scout to push broken race cars a few times....lol. Dad used to race mini-stock up there in the early 90's too....until that class was dropped for several years. Uncle Bud was his pit crew sometimes.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj ¦ RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? ¦ Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

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