DrFishbone Engine Build Thread 2017

Well...I'm going to drive it 100miles round trip to work tomorrow...change the oil, maybe try flushing the PS fluid...we'll see how that goes. Need to get the old laptop dusted off and make sure I can datalog.

Also forgot I put my 100lb stereo box in the trunk....guess I need to disconnect and remove that too, right? :p I may or may not leave it in for the "car show" I don't know when I'll have time to clean it and the Anny all up though..lol
 
If you delete the PCV, you should at least incorporate some sort of restriction, such as a simple baffle with a small hole...I've heard that some manufs. are doing this on cheaper cars in an effort to reduce costs, etc. But by the time you go to that amount of DIY, you could just retain the OE PCV system and be done. Wasn't there a recent thread where someone found out the factory baffles were somehow missing/removed when they inspected the valve covers?

That was me. :rolleyes:

I been following this thread on and off and missed it b4. I CAN attest, ya leave out the baffle, u WILL suck a chit ton o oil into the intake, oil separator or no.

Looking at ur newest schematics, that does not seem to vent the crank case at all, u have set up a closed system, valve cover to valve cover with crank case and separator between, no air flow.

The drivers valve cover is the inlet of air to crankcase, placed behind the mass air meter, so metered, filtered air, no vac leak. The drivers valve cover/pcv valve used to evacuate/relieve crankcase pressure back into intake system. With a properly operating pcv I can see no reason to reinvent the wheel, just install the oil separator between pcv and manifold?

Adam
 
Thinking some more, I remember seeing a thread about someone promoting a billet "adjustable" pcv valve. Couple of bleeder screws to adjust when and how much flow goes thru the valve, and a more positive seal to make sure it happens as directed. Could not really see the point or advantage at the time, but maybe. Think it was at or near the $100 price point which I thought was crazy? Fits ur idea of a "pretty" pcv tho!?!? LOL! May b something to think on long term?

Adam
 
Adam, his latest schematics has a vent filter on the catch can it will work on wot but not under normal driving. As I stated the best is to keep the system, add an enclosed catch can, and add a oil cap vent adapter and filter designed with a check ball and baffles so it does not operate under normal conditions ie vacuum. But will open and relieve crankcase pressure during WOT and boost. It will keep gaskets and seals from breaking a seal, dipsticks from blowing out.
 
Looking at ur newest schematics, that does not seem to vent the crank case at all, u have set up a closed system, valve cover to valve cover with crank case and separator between, no air flow.

It does vent the crankcase, but doesn't circulate fresh air through it.

Like Derek mentioned, it's basically old hot-rod style. Main thing (for now …. The Shootout) is that I'm relieving any crankcase pressure that builds up in a way that won't make a mess under the hood or on the track. Later, I'll figure out what to do add some degree of fresh air into the crankcase to more actively remove the blowby air / vapors.
 
I posted about the adjustable PCV Valve, I think. Its working good on the Marauder still. I also got one of them oil fill vent caps, it spews oil so be aware of that.
 
Yeah, gotch.

I missed the vented separator/tank. I still believe that just putting a sealed separator between stock style PCV and manifold is simplest, and maybe best solution. The "tuneable" PCV may give you the rest of what ur looking for as to when it seals/vents, and how much flow you get when it does.

Adam
 
Well, the Shootout has come and past! Although I couldn't find the required time this year to dedicate to the car and had more freeze plug trouble, I did get a single dyno pull and a single pass at the track before throwing in the towel.

Dyno Pull:
I waited till literally the last minute to put the car on the dyno. Thanks to Kurt K. and whoever passed along the word that I was interested! Only minutes before that were the only real full throttle-to-the-redline (or so I thought) pulls that I made on the street with the car running very well...the engine ran amazing, so I pulled back into the hotel parking lot, right in front of the dyno. Less than 10minutes later, it was getting backed up on the dyno :eek: It ran pretty rich on the datalogs (11.3-10.9 beyond 3k rpm), ACT's were low (less that 100F), and timing was conservative (22° advanced), so I didn't feel bad about giving it a spin on the dyno. So, here are the stats:

Mid 80's in the sunlight
Engine pretty warm from "street pulls" - 180F-190F coolant temp
Timing @ 22° max advance
Rev limiter at 7500rpm
25% OD on MPx w/abradive rotors and engine detailed in this thread...had put 200-300miles on for break-in, new 15w-50 Mobil One
Alky System on, ~5gal 93 Octane + 5 gallons 110 Race Fuel (Leaded)


Got BE logging the run, dyno operator did the pull in 4th gear and told him to aim for the max range of the gauge (about 6500rpm I figured)....engine ran well up to what sounded like the rev limiter (stock gauge was maxed out....even "stuck" on the bezel after the pull....lol)....right as the dyno operator was letting up, another freeze plug shot out and dumped the 50/50 coolant everywhere. :eek: It seemed like it hit the rev limiter kinda fast was the only other notable thing I remember. AFR was still really rich of course.

Seemed to me like an overall crummy pull, with the low timing and seemingly low rev limit, but still managed 387rwhp and 437rwtq (peak HP was at about 5400rpm).

Well obviously, they were done with my car after the freeze plug, so thanks to help from several of the guys, we got the car pushed back out of the way.

Looking at the dyno sheet and dyno pull log, I learned several things....
1) Power dropped off at 5500rpm (should have kept going with this motor)
2) Boost DID NOT drop off - started at 16.5psi and only fluctuated a little all the way up - so no significant belt slip.
3) car was still running rich, 11.2-10.9 or so.
4) spark advance maxed out at 22deg @ about 4500rpm - I'm thinking with the new operating range of RPM's, I need to ramp it up to it's max at a higher RPM. I had planned on going up to 28deg on the second pull.
5) AND lastly and most importantly.....I pegged my slot MAF sensor in a 4" tube at around 5500rpm!! :eek::mad:....That was the limiting factor! So I'll be grabbing an SCT BA5000 now.

Anyway, call me optimistic, but I feel like I could have EASILY surpassed 400rwhp, but do to my lack of preparation, I did not. Perhaps the car would not have even made it to the Shootout if I had beat on it to the point of more freeze plugs popping at home though....;)
 
1/4mi Pass:

So…after the dyno pull, we got the freeze plug issue fixed (it was the one above the starter this time – easy!) and I filled up with distilled water. I had convinced myself that the freeze plugs that remained were ok, as the one that had blown on the dyno had signs of prior leaking, but didn’t want to mess up track day for everyone just in case. Did a little tweaking on the tune before social time.
So, Sunday morning after getting everything ready and helping Danielle get some 1/4mi practice in her car, I decided to try a pass!
Got an “ok” burnout…should have held it longer. I could tell the new motor had a good bit more power already….hoped to get a 12.9-13.1 on my first pass, since both the car and myself were a little rusty. ;)
Hung around waiting for Mike Inch to pull up next to me, but he wouldn’t do it….lol.
Finally staged and launched similar to how I always used to and spun the SNOT out of those tires for 20-30ft I think. It finally hooked and I thought it was ready for 2nd gear, so I shifted. Turned out that was only around 5k. :rolleyes: Ran 2nd gear up to around 5500rpm, since that was all the air my MAF could read and slammed it into third and held 3rd through the 1/4mi beams. Felt like I was flying pretty good, but I guessed it was around a 13.5s pass, based on all the spinning and early shift to 2nd…..I was WRONG!

0.017s reaction.....2.0xx 60ft.....12.575s 1/4mi @ 111mph

While I made the pass, I checked the rearview a couple of times looking for steam, but saw nothing…however, at the end of the 1/4mi, I noticed my temp gauge was at 210F…..it didn’t cool down on the way back either. :( Turned out I lost a driver’s side freeze plug at the very end of the track. So that was the end of race day for me. Based on the feel of that pass alone, I think very low 12’s would have been easy for the car with the problems it has….11’s are in sight for sure. ;)
 
So, goals....I want this setup to reach 11.6s 1/4mi and 420rwhp....this car, motor, M5R2, MPXs, no N2O....we'll say even pre-E85. Might even add A/C back to it. :p I'm going to focus on restoring its dependability, driveability and maybe even appearance for next year....this car deserves it. I can honestly say, I've never hated this car....I know it's not pretty, has a ton of miles on it, but from day one till today, I like it even more.

Obviously, we'll be more prepared for the next race....just couldn't find time to work on it this year. It was tough swinging the Shootout even, but like always, I'm glad we did!
 
So, goals....I want this setup to reach 11.6s 1/4mi and 420rwhp....this car, motor, M5R2, MPXs, no N2O....we'll say even pre-E85. Might even add A/C back to it. :p I'm going to focus on restoring its dependability, driveability and maybe even appearance for next year....this car deserves it. I can honestly say, I've never hated this car....I know it's not pretty, has a ton of miles on it, but from day one till today, I like it even more.

Obviously, we'll be more prepared for the next race....just couldn't find time to work on it this year. It was tough swinging the Shootout even, but like always, I'm glad we did!

I think you should be able to get there Matt. My only pass of the day on motor only with only 398 on the Dyno made an 11.91 pass @ 114 with a slightly short shift into 3rd.
Still think 420 might be a bit ambitious, but I don't know all of the details of that motor. I think Inch is the highest all motor I have seen with 407 last year!

Good luck and keep us informed. I may try and get to Bowling Green before they close down after getting trans issue figured out to try for my 10 sec pass before they kick me off the track ! LOL

Smitty
 
I think you should be able to get there Matt. My only pass of the day on motor only with only 398 on the Dyno made an 11.91 pass @ 114 with a slightly short shift into 3rd.
Still think 420 might be a bit ambitious, but I don't know all of the details of that motor. I think Inch is the highest all motor I have seen with 407 last year!

Good luck and keep us informed. I may try and get to Bowling Green before they close down after getting trans issue figured out to try for my 10 sec pass before they kick me off the track ! LOL

Smitty

I thought the 11.6 was more ambitious. ;)

You must really get work done! I was just hoping to have my freeze plugs done by spring! lol

Hope your transmission work isn't too bad and you can make it! Should have a chance for some new bests, I bet. :)
 
Good job all things considered. But I wonder why you think this will keep going till 7000, the cam will limit you and the blower aswell. But it’s great to see great running M90s in the 400whp range.
 
Good job all things considered. But I wonder why you think this will keep going till 7000, the cam will limit you and the blower aswell. But it’s great to see great running M90s in the 400whp range.

Yes, I'll probably find the limit of the blower somewhere up there....I guess 7K just doesn't sound that far away. I need to brush up on MPXs limits though....it's been awhile since I read anyone else's finding on that subject. There aren't too many out there that are pushing the MPX to the max. It's more fun putting on an AR, Whipple, TVS or turbo, right!? :)

I don't see the cam as a limit though... :confused:
 
Matt,

Do you have MLS head gaskets ? Sounds like you may be adding combustion pressure into coolant causing the freeze plug failures. Asking because I once had one that would only leak under high boost and high rpm then reseal itself the rest of the time. Mine didn't pop any freeze plugs, but it would blow coolant out of the reservoir/overflow tank.

David
 
Do you have a dyno sheet with boost logged to see what the blower output is capable of? When I dyno'd last month the boost curve and the HP curve had a funny coincidence at 6200 rpm way below the 6800 rpm that I'm limited by to give me an idea what was going on. ie hp curved down as the boost went up 3 psi at the exact same point pointing at a restriction in the system.
 
Do you have a dyno sheet with boost logged to see what the blower output is capable of? When I dyno'd last month the boost curve and the HP curve had a funny coincidence at 6200 rpm way below the 6800 rpm that I'm limited by to give me an idea what was going on. ie hp curved down as the boost went up 3 psi at the exact same point pointing at a restriction in the system.

Correct, my recent Dyno to 6500 also revealed the limits of the cam and lifters. Boost creep is a phenomenon that happens to me, the blower is feeding the engine more than the the engine can digest past 6200-6300. At 7000 rpms it is just wreckless. I assume solid lifters can alleviate the problem but still if we are out of cam nothing we can do about it. This community has experience with llarge cams during the coy miller era, but we all know they become a tuning nightmare, we also start to lose the flat torque curve to trade for high rpm hp# simply based on revolutions and not because of torque. vTEC anyone?

Twin scre blower have a specific operating rpm/efficiency range. The Mpx is not as much, but it is limited by inlet restrictions and cavitation. Then again have you pulled an mpx after heavy use at 25% od? You will likely see some scoring and rotor impact.
 
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