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Thread: DrFishbone Engine Build Thread 2017

  1. #196
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    Good job all things considered. But I wonder why you think this will keep going till 7000, the cam will limit you and the blower aswell. But itís great to see great running M90s in the 400whp range.

  2. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricardoa1 View Post
    Good job all things considered. But I wonder why you think this will keep going till 7000, the cam will limit you and the blower aswell. But itís great to see great running M90s in the 400whp range.
    Yes, I'll probably find the limit of the blower somewhere up there....I guess 7K just doesn't sound that far away. I need to brush up on MPXs limits though....it's been awhile since I read anyone else's finding on that subject. There aren't too many out there that are pushing the MPX to the max. It's more fun putting on an AR, Whipple, TVS or turbo, right!?

    I don't see the cam as a limit though...
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | '17 Spectator | '18 Freeze-Plug Champ
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, Alky-Inj ¶ 387rwhp, 438rwtq (new motor) ¶ Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph (old motor)
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  3. #198
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    St. Charles, MO
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    Matt,

    Do you have MLS head gaskets ? Sounds like you may be adding combustion pressure into coolant causing the freeze plug failures. Asking because I once had one that would only leak under high boost and high rpm then reseal itself the rest of the time. Mine didn't pop any freeze plugs, but it would blow coolant out of the reservoir/overflow tank.

    David
    1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
    2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat.............10.597 @ 135.78

    My Garage

  4. #199
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    Jul 2003
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    Ottawa, Ohio
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    Do you have a dyno sheet with boost logged to see what the blower output is capable of? When I dyno'd last month the boost curve and the HP curve had a funny coincidence at 6200 rpm way below the 6800 rpm that I'm limited by to give me an idea what was going on. ie hp curved down as the boost went up 3 psi at the exact same point pointing at a restriction in the system.
    SCCoA Member#: 2515
    1990 SC AOD 2.1L Kenne Bell
    11.676 @ 121.35 mph
    506hp/478tq
    My Garage

  5. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by rzimmerl View Post
    Do you have a dyno sheet with boost logged to see what the blower output is capable of? When I dyno'd last month the boost curve and the HP curve had a funny coincidence at 6200 rpm way below the 6800 rpm that I'm limited by to give me an idea what was going on. ie hp curved down as the boost went up 3 psi at the exact same point pointing at a restriction in the system.
    Correct, my recent Dyno to 6500 also revealed the limits of the cam and lifters. Boost creep is a phenomenon that happens to me, the blower is feeding the engine more than the the engine can digest past 6200-6300. At 7000 rpms it is just wreckless. I assume solid lifters can alleviate the problem but still if we are out of cam nothing we can do about it. This community has experience with llarge cams during the coy miller era, but we all know they become a tuning nightmare, we also start to lose the flat torque curve to trade for high rpm hp# simply based on revolutions and not because of torque. vTEC anyone?

    Twin scre blower have a specific operating rpm/efficiency range. The Mpx is not as much, but it is limited by inlet restrictions and cavitation. Then again have you pulled an mpx after heavy use at 25% od? You will likely see some scoring and rotor impact.

  6. #201
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    I don't have stock replacement lifters and even Dave was kinda confused whats going on. Thought is the crimp bent exhaust I have is causing restriction as some of the bends are fairly crunched, so full mandrel exhaust will be installed in the spring to see if this is the issue.
    SCCoA Member#: 2515
    1990 SC AOD 2.1L Kenne Bell
    11.676 @ 121.35 mph
    506hp/478tq
    My Garage

  7. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by rzimmerl View Post
    I don't have stock replacement lifters and even Dave was kinda confused whats going on. Thought is the crimp bent exhaust I have is causing restriction as some of the bends are fairly crunched, so full mandrel exhaust will be installed in the spring to see if this is the issue.
    Maybe but donít chase your tail too much. I do have crimped exhaust aswel, But is it peeing in the ocean would be my next question? IDK sometimes
    We just need to settle and enjoy.

  8. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Neibert View Post
    Matt,

    Do you have MLS head gaskets ? Sounds like you may be adding combustion pressure into coolant causing the freeze plug failures. Asking because I once had one that would only leak under high boost and high rpm then reseal itself the rest of the time. Mine didn't pop any freeze plugs, but it would blow coolant out of the reservoir/overflow tank.

    David
    Yes, MLS gaskets. I worried about that, but thinking back, the first two freeze plugs blew at moderate RPM and less than 5psi boost. The first blew with no boost applied at all.

    I'm pretty confident that's not the issue....or at least pretty hopeful!
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | '17 Spectator | '18 Freeze-Plug Champ
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, Alky-Inj ¶ 387rwhp, 438rwtq (new motor) ¶ Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph (old motor)
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  9. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by rzimmerl View Post
    Do you have a dyno sheet with boost logged to see what the blower output is capable of? When I dyno'd last month the boost curve and the HP curve had a funny coincidence at 6200 rpm way below the 6800 rpm that I'm limited by to give me an idea what was going on. ie hp curved down as the boost went up 3 psi at the exact same point pointing at a restriction in the system.
    I do have the dyno sheet (in front of me) and the log of the dyno pull (at home). From memory, the boost held constant throughout the pull. On the dyno sheet, the pull ended at 6k rpm....power peaked at 387 @ 5400rpm and dropped to about 330 @ 6000rpm.

    I don't think this dyno sheet and log are representative of a well-tuned car yet. It runs well, but the MAF curve needs work up high, plus it was pegged at 5500rpm anyway. Common sense says any air through the intake beyond the max a MAF sensor can output is going to have mixed and unreliable results. The way I see it, I had an "OK" dyno pull to 5500rpm...what happened beyond that can't be evaluated accurately until the hardware and subsequently, the tune, is fixed.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | '17 Spectator | '18 Freeze-Plug Champ
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, Alky-Inj ¶ 387rwhp, 438rwtq (new motor) ¶ Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph (old motor)
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  10. #205
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    English, IN
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    I think I've said it already, but compared to previous Shootouts, that car felt slapped together....I didn't get to spend the time I wanted/needed getting it ready. I hope to get caught up and get it sorted out for next spring though.

    I do suspect that the limit of the MPx and inlet tract will show up somewhere up in the 6000's....if that means that power starts starts nosediving, that's okay. I'm hoping the solid rollers extend that range a little bit.

    Jacob asked me if I wanted to buy his Whipple this morning.....lol.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | '17 Spectator | '18 Freeze-Plug Champ
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, Alky-Inj ¶ 387rwhp, 438rwtq (new motor) ¶ Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph (old motor)
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  11. #206
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    English, IN
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    Getting back on this now....

    So, I'm working on getting the engine and transmission pulled back out to fix a few things and install Brian's old long tube headers. A test fit with the engine still in didn't look too good. I think once I scoot the motor/tranmission forward 1/2" or so, it will look a lot better. Right now, it's sitting as far back as possible in the transmission crossmember. The drivers header rest against the steering shaft (not the joint...the actual shaft!) and the passenger side touches the frame rail.

    I think I'm going to go ahead and delete the oil cooler and re-route the heater hose on the driver's side to the passenger using some of the SS flex tubing (like I used for the radiator hoses). This would make checking the hot-lash alot easier on the drivers side, clean things up a good bit, reduce leak points and also lose a little more weight. I have an extra quart oil capacity anyway...I'm thinking there won't be an issue, but I can always do a remote-mount oil filter/cooler if needed. The only thing I'm not sure of is where to put the factory sending unit (which is currently relocated to the passenger's heater tube from a climate control car)....I'm thinking I'll be redoing the factory gauges with all aftermarket before too long, since I need more range on my tach anyway. I just don't like having non-functioning gauges!

    Also need to figure out what was up with the power steering. I'm thinking the remanufactured pump was bad out of the box....the fluid looks gray after the little bit of use and repeated attempts to purge the system of air.

    I'm undecided on the crankcase vent system....I'm leaning towards just building a larger PVC system with a separator, like previously discussed.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | '17 Spectator | '18 Freeze-Plug Champ
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, Alky-Inj ¶ 387rwhp, 438rwtq (new motor) ¶ Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph (old motor)
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  12. #207
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    Location
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    It took some digging, but I finally found some corrugated stainless tubing that should work for the heater hoses. Had to buy it from an alternative energy supply store...lol. I'll use 5/8" silicon heater hose to clamp it to the inlet/outlet on the water pump. The corrugated tube doesn't quite have an interference fit like I would like. As long as it doesn't leak, all will be well. If it does, I'll just look for some 5/8" corrugated tubing.

    Progress: got the engine and transmission out early last week, separated them this weekend, took off the clutch, flywheel and removed all remaining block freeze plugs. There were no signs of them leaking or working their way out, but they'll all be replaced and loctited-in.

    Need to order the new freeze plugs (or core plugs), power steering pump and rack/pinion. I found alot of fine metal flakes in the fluid when I drained the system. I COULD flush the rack I suppose, but it will be alot easier to replace while the engine is out. :/
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | '17 Spectator | '18 Freeze-Plug Champ
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, Alky-Inj ¶ 387rwhp, 438rwtq (new motor) ¶ Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph (old motor)
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  13. #208
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    Aug 2005
    Location
    Paoli Indiana
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    Do work son! Guess I am going to have to show you five speed guys how to shift this year
    93 SC Red Aod 4.2/2.3lwhipple 422rwhp 11.360
    2013 Shootout Bracket ET First Place
    2015 Shootout Car Show Honerable Mention
    2016 Shootout Mod-1 First Place
    2018 Shootout Pro Street Runner Up
    Coming soon new motor 2300 TVS etc..
    90 35th aod stock, 90 5 speed Bolton Build in progress

  14. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jacob_Royer View Post
    Do work son! Guess I am going to have to show you five speed guys how to shift this year
    Ha! We'll see about that!
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | '17 Spectator | '18 Freeze-Plug Champ
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, Alky-Inj ¶ 387rwhp, 438rwtq (new motor) ¶ Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph (old motor)
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  15. #210
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    Aug 2005
    Location
    Paoli Indiana
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrFishbone View Post
    Ha! We'll see about that!
    I probably have a combined 800k+ under my belt of rowing gears in five speed fords
    93 SC Red Aod 4.2/2.3lwhipple 422rwhp 11.360
    2013 Shootout Bracket ET First Place
    2015 Shootout Car Show Honerable Mention
    2016 Shootout Mod-1 First Place
    2018 Shootout Pro Street Runner Up
    Coming soon new motor 2300 TVS etc..
    90 35th aod stock, 90 5 speed Bolton Build in progress

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