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Thread: Reinforcing rear upper control arms?

  1. #1
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    Reinforcing rear upper control arms?

    A long time ago in a forum here I found a really great write-up/ how to on reinforcing/ bracing the rear sub frame assy. Specifically it had info on braces to be welded in to the rear upper control arms with dimensions and pics. I thought I printed it out for future use, but can't find it, or the original write up. Can anybody help me out here?

    Thanks

    Adam

  2. #2
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    I have the old MN12 Performance article saved on my computer....I don't know if it exists on the interwebs anymore.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
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  3. #3
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    That's right...TCCoA archived it....

    http://www.tccoa.com/articles/mn12how-to/irs/irs.html
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  4. #4
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    Nice save. Thanks!!
    Creighton

  5. #5
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    That is the very article. Thanks Matt

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroot1 View Post
    That is the very article. Thanks Matt
    Yes sir!

    If you end up doing all the seam welding, drop a review...I haven't heard much about how much this really helps.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  7. #7
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    Yeah, I wondered how much that could possibly help too. I'm not planning on going that far. I've tried removing the sub frames of several parts cars here in the heart of the rust belt. Ain't gonna happen without destructive methods. I've welded the k frame to the chassis/frame rails in lieu of solid bushings, and am thinking of bracing the upper arm and boxing the "tabs" on k frame that the lower control arms bolt into. There was a thread from like '07 here where a guy built a radius arm from the top of the upper arm going back to the frame rail to eliminate movement front to rear. Looked like a really cool idea, but he never left any feedback on how it worked. WAY beyond my plans/needs. Maybe for a maxed out track or auto cross rig. I also have an idea for subframe connectors that I think will fit pretty tight to the floor and be pretty simple. Looking for material (2 1/2 X 1 .120 min wall tubing) now.

    Adam

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroot1 View Post
    Yeah, I wondered how much that could possibly help too. I'm not planning on going that far. I've tried removing the sub frames of several parts cars here in the heart of the rust belt. Ain't gonna happen without destructive methods. I've welded the k frame to the chassis/frame rails in lieu of solid bushings, and am thinking of bracing the upper arm and boxing the "tabs" on k frame that the lower control arms bolt into. There was a thread from like '07 here where a guy built a radius arm from the top of the upper arm going back to the frame rail to eliminate movement front to rear. Looked like a really cool idea, but he never left any feedback on how it worked. WAY beyond my plans/needs. Maybe for a maxed out track or auto cross rig. I also have an idea for subframe connectors that I think will fit pretty tight to the floor and be pretty simple. Looking for material (2 1/2 X 1 .120 min wall tubing) now.

    Adam
    Dan Thornsberry (old_coot) had a cheap but effective idea for helping (or eliminating) wheelhop if that's what you're shooting for.

    They're pricey and not readily available, but Delrin bushings (I assume the nylon bushings too) for the knuckle and LCA's make a huge difference over rubber and poly. I haven't driven the car much since installing them, but my 60's had improved and the rear of the car feels very controlled in the turns now.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  9. #9
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    Just looking for over all improvement, which definitely means eliminating wheel hop. Had to do some rust repair, and the whole of the front suspension needs rebuilt/replaced so that shouldn't take much Found the pigtail on one rear spring broken, and someone had replaced the upper arm bushing with the crappy Asian knockoffs that bind up (one piece rubber).Rear shocks were blown. So.... The MK VIII control arms with DLF's delrin inner bushings, new Tociko's, lowering springs, another pair of upper arms that have new bushings and addco sway bar r going on. Been collecting pieces for a while, knew this day was coming

    I have the delrin knuckle bushings too. Planned on putting them in, but when I pulled the knuckle and axle assy's out (I left the axle in the knuckle and pulled in one piece) the rubber originals look REALLY good. Not soft or distorted, and absolutely no dry rot cracks, which suprized me. Cars just coming up on 100k. I was thinking of just throwing them back in, figuring the new shocks/springs and inner bushings top and bottom would make a massive difference. Also felt I could prep and fit up bushings on another set of knuckles and throw 'em on later. That part of the job's pretty easy, I'm not looking forward to getting the old rubber out. That's a job that always sux. Never found a decent way to do it that it doesn't fight at every step.

    Any links to old_coots budget wheel hop fix? Always interested in ideas, and this site is full of good ones

    Adam

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroot1 View Post
    Just looking for over all improvement, which definitely means eliminating wheel hop. Had to do some rust repair, and the whole of the front suspension needs rebuilt/replaced so that shouldn't take much Found the pigtail on one rear spring broken, and someone had replaced the upper arm bushing with the crappy Asian knockoffs that bind up (one piece rubber).Rear shocks were blown. So.... The MK VIII control arms with DLF's delrin inner bushings, new Tociko's, lowering springs, another pair of upper arms that have new bushings and addco sway bar r going on. Been collecting pieces for a while, knew this day was coming

    I have the delrin knuckle bushings too. Planned on putting them in, but when I pulled the knuckle and axle assy's out (I left the axle in the knuckle and pulled in one piece) the rubber originals look REALLY good. Not soft or distorted, and absolutely no dry rot cracks, which suprized me.
    However, it has still been depolimerizing over the past, what, 26 or so years? Pull that rubber, replace with the delrin.

    Or don't bitch about the wheel hop.

    RwP

  11. #11
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    I put bills upper control arms in and that worked out very well for me.
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  12. #12
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    I'd still replace for sure....you spent so much on them! Lol

    Save your knuckles with the good bushings for extras.

    I used a couple of different size exhaust tubing, an assortment of large washers, nuts and all-thread to remove and install mine.....they all csme out and went in easily .
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  13. #13
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    The plan was NOT using these parts for this car, but best laid plans and all that. The other cars a lot further away from use

    If I ever had instructions for these bushings I can't find 'em. Are these designed to leave the factory steel bushing shell and remove just the rubber as with most poly aftermarkets?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroot1 View Post
    The plan was NOT using these parts for this car, but best laid plans and all that. The other cars a lot further away from use

    If I ever had instructions for these bushings I can't find 'em. Are these designed to leave the factory steel bushing shell and remove just the rubber as with most poly aftermarkets?
    The DLF / Jay Richmond Deleon bushings? No...all parts of the old bushings are removed.

    I have the instructions in my email I think....
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

  15. #15
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    Yep...found them...they're PDF though. Send me your email address and I'll forward them to you.
    Matt Haub
    Shootouts: '09 SS 1st | '10 Mod1 2nd | '11 Bracket 3rd | '12 Bracket 1st | 2013 | '14 Bracket 3rd | 2015 | '16 Bracket 1st & Mod2 2nd | 2017 |
    Black '89 5spd - 281K miles, MPx, E85, Alky-Inj RWHP: ? RWTQ: ? Best 1/4mi:12.521, MPH:107.23mph
    35th Anniversary Auto 46k miles | Red '93 Auto 186k miles
    My Garage

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