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Thread: This doesn't sound good

  1. #1
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    This doesn't sound good

    Replaced the oxygen sensors and starter in my SC today to fix separate problems. Drove it for the first time in several weeks, and after a while it started sounding as if there's a bunch of rock bouncing around in the engine or transmission. Oil pressure was fine, the car certainly felt/sounded as if it was running on all cylinders, it shifted well and the clutch felt normal, but I brought it home on a rollback. I'm sort of pissed so I'm not going to deal with this today, other than I slid the belt off the supercharger and rotated that by hand. It's not obviously gritty/noisy.

    I suppose if I'm lucky I broke a tooth/teeth off the starter. I imagine I'll pull the plugs and the valve covers for inspection and change the oil when I have a chance. Any other suggestions for stuff to check?

  2. #2
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    Still have the cats? That sound is sometimes because guts have failed/broken up inside and rattle like rocks in a tin can. Usually at idle, when the exhaust flow is lowest, I think.

    Could be a heat shield on one of them too.

    Why were the O2 sensors done?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMT View Post
    Still have the cats? That sound is sometimes because guts have failed/broken up inside and rattle like rocks in a tin can. Usually at idle, when the exhaust flow is lowest, I think.

    Could be a heat shield on one of them too.

    Why were the O2 sensors done?
    The car has high-flow spun cats, and they're located quite far back. They were installed around 10 years ago. I can't say for sure they're not the source of the problem, but it doesn't sound as if it's coming from that area.

    I replaced the O2 sensors because I was getting simultaneous rich and lean codes on the same bank of cylinders.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
    The car has high-flow spun cats, and they're located quite far back. They were installed around 10 years ago.
    I've heard that if they're ff too far back, they might not get enough heat to light off and do their job.

    My 6 yr. old hi-flos (further back) just failed (wasn't instant, I'm sure)...coolant was slowly being fed into the exhaust, then they (just one, more likely) started to rattle, then blocked so bad I've got overboost on long pulls. Did O2 sensors twice while addressing a rich condition. It's parked now, and I'll do cats and head gaskets as soon as I finish stockpiling parts.

    Might your noise be detonation?

    Good luck.

    Ken

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMT View Post
    I've heard that if they're ff too far back, they might not get enough heat to light off and do their job.

    My 6 yr. old hi-flos (further back) just failed (wasn't instant, I'm sure)...coolant was slowly being fed into the exhaust, then they (just one, more likely) started to rattle, then blocked so bad I've got overboost on long pulls. Did O2 sensors twice while addressing a rich condition. It's parked now, and I'll do cats and head gaskets as soon as I finish stockpiling parts.

    Might your noise be detonation?

    Good luck.

    Ken
    It doesn't sound like detonation. And I meant to provide more info by saying it's not directly related to load, RPM or gear. The noise was present at idle and standing still, though it did seem to be more noticeable when moving.

  6. #6
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    Hard to make guesses without hearing it, but maybe something clutch related like the throw out bearing or a broken spring?

  7. #7
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    Are you sure the starter you got was correct? I put a G-force 5 Spd in a mustang years ago and the starter snout depth was different than stock. The starter gear never disengaged. Blew the bearings out of it in about 3 miles

    THAT sounded like a handful of nuts in the belhousing


    Adam

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroot1 View Post
    Are you sure the starter you got was correct? I put a G-force 5 Spd in a mustang years ago and the starter snout depth was different than stock. The starter gear never disengaged. Blew the bearings out of it in about 3 miles

    THAT sounded like a handful of nuts in the belhousing


    Adam
    Adam definitely seems to be the winner here. Old starter on the left, new starter on the right.



    This was a new Motocraft starter from Rock Auto, so I'm pretty disappointed. Either this is the wrong design to begin with, or it failed in a matter of miles, just as Adam said his did.

    Is there any difference between starters for manual and automatic cars?

  9. #9
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    I just looked through the Rock Auto catalog, and all of the starter pictures look like the new one. Is the gear supposed to be that far forward?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
    I just looked through the Rock Auto catalog, and all of the starter pictures look like the new one. Is the gear supposed to be that far forward?
    Is the gear free on the shaft in either direction if you try to spin it by hand?

    What happens if you hit the starter leads with jumper cables? Does the gear extend/retract? Compare it to the old one if it works..

    Will it slide inside the starter body?

    Usually, centrifugal force extends and locks the gear to the shaft when the started is powered, spinning in one direction, then when the flywheel speed picks up, it spins free and retracts when power is cut to the starter.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMT View Post
    Is the gear free on the shaft in either direction if you try to spin it by hand?

    What happens if you hit the starter leads with jumper cables? Does the gear extend/retract? Compare it to the old one if it works..

    Will it slide inside the starter body?

    Usually, centrifugal force extends and locks the gear to the shaft when the started is powered, spinning in one direction, then when the flywheel speed picks up, it spins free and retracts when power is cut to the starter.
    On both the old and new starters, I can rotate the gear by hand in one direction only. And on both, I can pull forward on the gear, but when I let go, the gear retracts to the position shown in the picture above.

    And I must be doing something wrong, because I couldn't get either battery to do anything when hooked directly to two different batteries.

  12. #12
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    wow. one of those rare times u don't want to b a winner. lol! Looks like the starter in right pic did not retract into the housing, or disengage. As far as I know, 5.0 and 3.8 auto and 5 spd starters r the same

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by aroot1 View Post
    wow. one of those rare times u don't want to b a winner. lol! Looks like the starter in right pic did not retract into the housing, or disengage. As far as I know, 5.0 and 3.8 auto and 5 spd starters r the same
    There are lots of worse things it could have been. This is a pain, but much preferable to flywheel or internal engine/trans damage.

    I watched a video on jumping a starter. Both starters spin, extend and then retract. However, the gear in the new starter is just sitting way farther forward to begin with.

    The reason I replaced the old starter was that when I hit the key, the starter wasn't engaging. I could hear the IC fan slow way down, so obviously the starter was drawing current--it just wasn't doing anything.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
    Both starters spin, extend and then retract. However, the gear in the new starter is just sitting way farther forward to begin with.
    But do you witness any damage to either the gear on the starter, or to the flywheel ring gear? Does the new starter sound ok when it spins when jumped? Any cracks in the snout?

    I don't see any damage to the gear on the new starter...

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMT View Post
    But do you witness any damage to either the gear on the starter, or to the flywheel ring gear? Does the new starter sound ok when it spins when jumped? Any cracks in the snout?

    I don't see any damage to the gear on the new starter...
    No obvious damage to the starter that I saw or heard. I didn't get a good look at the ring gear.

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