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Thread: SOLVED: familiar song...SC sat for years, won't start, running out of ideas

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Roanoke, Virginia
    Posts
    3,293
    Interchangable part numbers.

    WELLS SU220
    CARQUEST 71-4924
    AIRTEX 5S1751
    BWD CSS43
    ACDelco 213-4192
    ECHLIN CSS407

    -Tim
    Current Collection
    1994 Thunderbird SC - Auto converted to 5spd

    1995 Thunderbird SC - Auto

    1994 Thunderbird SC - 5spd
    1989 Thunderbird SC - 5spd - Daily Driver
    1990 Thunder/Cougar XR7 - 5spd
    1994 Thunderbird SC - 3v Project

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    85

    wrong injectors

    I'm starting to wonder about the injectors I installed. If you compare the original design with what I put in, they are quite different. Perhaps my blind trust in compatibility claims was misplaced. Shouldn't the car still at least idle though? Especially when it revs up smoothly?

    I've attached pictures of the OEM design and the ones I bought. Disregard the size, that's just the pics. Welcome any thoughts...

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  3. #63
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    85
    Since no one is chiming in I figure everyone is just shaking their heads at my stupidity or no one is sure.

    I've decided I'm stupid for not raising the alarm when the tips of the new injectors were so different from the old. If for no other reason than to know I am getting the right spray pattern and volume, I'm going to pull it apart again, service the old injetors, and reinstall the originals.

    Going to replace the balancer that I removed to inspect as well.

    Stay tuned...

  4. #64
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    152

    RE: Part Numbers for Crank Sensor

    Thanks Tim, for tracking these down. Going to do some investigative work. There's always new old stock lying around somewhere ....if you can find an OEM Ford #, let me know....I may stop by the local dealer.

    David
    ===


    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Groth View Post
    Interchangable part numbers.

    WELLS SU220
    CARQUEST 71-4924
    AIRTEX 5S1751
    BWD CSS43
    ACDelco 213-4192
    ECHLIN CSS407

    -Tim
    Trying to imitate a 455 Olds with a Ford isn't easy, but it gives me a lot to think about.
    ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
    Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand.

  5. #65
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    85
    For anyone that cares or is fighting similar symptoms in the future....

    The problem all along was the injectors (except for the cam sensor which was also bad but wasn't the reason for the car not running right).

    First, the original injectors were completely clogged from sitting with ethanol-laced fuel in them. Ethanol is horrible s#$%.

    Second, after it started but wouldn't stay running, the problem was STILL injectors because the parts supplier had an incorrect listing for the SC (they have acknowledged the error and refunded me cost plus return shipping).

    The injectors they sent had the single hole nozzle instead of the pintle. After checking everything else five times I decided to clean a set of SC injectors I had on hand and put them in. Problem solved.

    Thanks to everyone who tried to help!

  6. #66
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    5,706
    Quote Originally Posted by hulakai View Post
    For anyone that cares or is fighting similar symptoms in the future....

    The problem all along was the injectors (except for the cam sensor which was also bad but wasn't the reason for the car not running right).

    First, the original injectors were completely clogged from sitting with ethanol-laced fuel in them. Ethanol is horrible s#$%.

    Second, after it started but wouldn't stay running, the problem was STILL injectors because the parts supplier had an incorrect listing for the SC (they have acknowledged the error and refunded me cost plus return shipping).

    The injectors they sent had the single hole nozzle instead of the pintle. After checking everything else five times I decided to clean a set of SC injectors I had on hand and put them in. Problem solved.

    Thanks to everyone who tried to help!
    Congrats. Glad to hear you finally worked it out. I salute your tenacity.

  7. #67
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    152

    ....speaking of Crank sensors

    Quote Originally Posted by TbirdSCFan View Post
    We have a big issue in front of us in that crank sensors are not longer being manufactured, at least that I know of through normal national suppliers. This means we either hoard, find a suitable substitute, repair what we have, or get a supplier to run a batch of sensors for us and make available to the community.


    Check out the crank sensor used in the 1989-1994 Ranger XLT with the 2.3 liter 4 cylinder.....it looks mysteriously similar to the 89-93 SC sensor. Exact same electrical connector and the body of the sensor looks like a spittin' image too , even the mounting holes are in the same place with identical metal grommets in the plastic housing. Rock auto has inventory on three brands .
    Perhaps the only differnece is hte length of the wiring harness....and it looks to as long if not longer than the 3.8 engine version


    Look at the Wells 5S1744, and the UltraPower brand with same number 5S1744 for only $21.79


    Wish I could measure that hole spacing, but it damn sure looks like the same device

    https://www.rockauto.com/en/catalog/...on+sensor,7196


    I may just grab one for $22 and take a gamble .....beats $150 for a used if it does turn out to be the same .....odds are that it IS the same since big car companies always try to use parts across car lines to save manufacturing costs for tooling.

    Just thought I'd share this nugget of info

    cheers ~ Dave
    Trying to imitate a 455 Olds with a Ford isn't easy, but it gives me a lot to think about.
    ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
    Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand.

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Pacific Rim
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    6,721
    Quote Originally Posted by DNA View Post
    Look at the Wells 5S1744, and the UltraPower brand with same number 5S1744 for only $21.79
    Good find, as long as the wiring doesn't need to be extended. They use shielded leads, and DIY might not work out.

    Strange tho, if these are identical, that other retailers have stopped carrying them. Get 'em while you can, I guess.
    Last edited by KMT; 10-13-2018 at 03:22 PM. Reason: I see the 5th wire now...

  9. #69
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Roanoke, Virginia
    Posts
    3,293
    Quote Originally Posted by KMT View Post
    The $22 one is missing one wire. There is a total of 5 on ours - you need one of the others, like the wells with the additional pigtail, instead. Good find, as long as the wiring doesn't need to be extended. They use shielded leads, and DIY might not work out.

    Strange tho, if these are identical, that other retailers have stopped carrying them. Get 'em while you can, I guess.
    I purchased one off ebay today for $15. I have a factory crank sensor in my stash box I will compare it to for those interested.

    As for testing all I have is 94/95 stuff so no help there until later down the road when I get my nephews 89 running.

    -Tim
    Current Collection
    1994 Thunderbird SC - Auto converted to 5spd

    1995 Thunderbird SC - Auto

    1994 Thunderbird SC - 5spd
    1989 Thunderbird SC - 5spd - Daily Driver
    1990 Thunder/Cougar XR7 - 5spd
    1994 Thunderbird SC - 3v Project

  10. #70
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Pacific Rim
    Posts
    6,721
    Thanks Tim - I should have added my interest is in early style. Keep us posted either way, tho, if you can.

    Ken

  11. #71
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Las Vegas, Nevada
    Posts
    152
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Groth View Post
    I purchased one off ebay today for $15. I have a factory crank sensor in my stash box I will compare it to for those interested.

    As for testing all I have is 94/95 stuff so no help there until later down the road when I get my nephews 89 running.

    -Tim
    That's great. I have also located the same crank sensor for sale on amazon (see link)

    https://www.amazon.com/Crankshaft-Po.../dp/B07GJV1MTR


    On page 20-4 of the Ford Shop Manual 1990 Thunderbird Electrical & Vacuum Troubleshooting Manual, I checked the wire colors and layout for the sensor circuit.

    It looks to be identical in wire colors and color position as well as the function of the specific pinouts. I'm sure the red plastic clip on the sensor can be easily removed.

    Also, according to the Wells manufacturer's spec sheet, the length of the wiring harness on this part is 24.25 inches, which is longer than the SC harness (way better than being too short); so the excess can be easily zip tied out of the way. Additionally, the Ultra-Power part (which is likely a Wells part, does have the same five wires (the fifth wire being the ground terminal to the braided shield which isolates Circuits 325 and 749 (Pulse outputs from crank and cam sensor, respectively) from external intereference. In the enclosed image file, you can see the the terminal for the ground braid (not very good photography which is why it wasn't noticeable on first glance, so I added the red arrow in the third picture). I also included some other detailed images showing wire color and position, as well as a clear view of the sensor body.

    What I could use is the hole spacing measurement in the sensor body (since I haven't taken this off the engine yet). It seems logical that one sensor design was engineered by Ford for all the engines using this control system during this time period in their production cycle. There is a limited time this item was used, looks like 1989-1994.


    term.#1 Dark Blue Circuit 349 from EEC
    term.#2 Dark Blue/ Orange Circuit 325 to Pin 4 on DIS
    term.#3 Light Blue Igntion Ground to sensors and DIS term.#7
    term.#4 Red/Light Green 12VDC feed to coil, both timing sensors and DIS term.#1

    ~Dave
    ===

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    Last edited by DNA; 10-13-2018 at 01:23 PM. Reason: typo
    Trying to imitate a 455 Olds with a Ford isn't easy, but it gives me a lot to think about.
    ><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><
    Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand.

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