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Thread: Hot summer days and the SC

  1. #1
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    Hot summer days and the SC

    Nice weather means taking the SC out, but temperatures have been climbing and with the help of BE I got chance to scale the factory temperature gauge, so that I know the limits when I run into a situation where itÂ’s too hot outside.

    NORM is the operating range on my car and beginning of N is 180 between ON basically vertical is 200, start if M is 210 and little past the end of M is 220, at which BE glows bright red telling me that things are heating up.

    I’ve taken the car out twice on 90 degree days and 220 is pretty much where it wants to be with the AC on and some traffic, standing still it wants to climb further, cruising will get it back down to maybe 210. As soon as ambient temps get to 80 or below, maintains 180-190 pretty easy, unless I do a pull.

    My question is how much heat can the engine tolerate?

    What is normal operation for a stock SC? Isn’t it Lo Fan 220 and Hi Fan 228? Should I be concerned running the engine at 220? What about boost when does it become dangerous to boost? 200? 210?

    It would be nice if one day I could go through a pull through all gears with 90 degrees outside or maybe have some endurance and not worry things are going to pop.
    Last edited by ricardoa1; 07-03-2020 at 12:26 AM.

  2. #2
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    According to my data using my '90 Anny with everything cooling system replaced except for the heater core and an aluminum radiator, I think your numbers are dead on normal.

    As long as your system is well maintained (and there are lots of things to watch over with and SC cooling system), I don't think you'll have issues, however, with our cars, there isn't much margin if you're out/about and something fails, such as the fan on the radiator, or a coolant leak... I don't think 220 is going to hurt, at least not in the short term. Especially if the system can bring the temp down. Just a matter of staying vigilant.

    I had an issue last year when the temp was between 220~230, and the fan was coming on late - problem was incorrect reference voltage and the computer getting erroneous info off the ECT. I went thru one drive cycle and two more while testing like that, but I've not been able to find any damage as a result. Don't forget too that overheating breaks down engine oil as well.

    Otherwise, when seeing normal hi range coolant temps and doing pulls, the air charge temps will rise as the system and intercooler saturate with the result being a risk of seeing timing pulled.

    As for boost and engine heat, I run a dual intake air temp guage, with one sender at the intercooler inlet and the other at the outlet. Stock IC w/7" fan, narrow A/C condenser to unmask the IC. It doesn't take much to raise the incoming air temp, while the IC, at least in my case, usually does a good job keeping the outgoing air temp below what the computer would judge as cause to pull timing. Lots of info on the 'net about that, but I can pull specs from my notes if you need them. I use the air charge temps and engine coolant temp to decide if I can make yet another pull, or give things a chance to shed heat and get back to normal first.

    Be sure the chin spoiler is in place to help create a negative pressure zone behind the radiator and under the engine to help encourage hot air to exit the engine bay. Keep in mind that lowered cars tend to inhibit air flow out of the engine bay.

  3. #3
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    Ever since my 1991 overheated I've been OCD. I just installed an aftermarket pusher fan on my 1993 Supercoupe. Now all 3 of my Supercoupes have a manual pusher fan that comes on with a manual switch in the cabin of the vehicle. Now if I'm ever at a stoplight and I ever think that my temps might be running high, I don't have to sit there and helplessly watch the needle go past the "M" in "NORM" If the car is going to be idling in a parking lot with the AC on, I can turn on the pusher fan for that too.

    The absolute biggest pusher fan I can install on a stock Supercoupe radiator is a slim 16 inch pusher fan BUT you have to use tin-snips and cut about 1/2 of an inch in two places on the metal bracket under the radiator. I had to stick the fan right where I wanted it and traced around the bottom with a marker so I knew where to mark it. Then I had to use an adjustable clamp to bend the metal out so I could push the fan flush with the radiator and used a hammer to tap the metal roughly back into place (but also holding the fan in place). On my 1991, I used a slim 15 inch and didn't have to do anything that I just mentioned.

    My 1991 has an aftermarket temp sensor that makes the factory fan turn on its high setting (no low-speed). It's probably set to come on a little sooner than it needs to be, I think it turns on while the needle is on "N" in "NORM" but it's easily adjustable. Unfortunately, my 1991 never let it's fan turn on when the AC is turned on, so I had no way of even "tricking" the car into turning its fan on when I needed it (but I can do that in my other 2 cars).

  4. #4
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    There is nothing else for me to do to my car to help keeping lower temperatures short of going full length and V8 fan, It’s the MP FMIC with upgraded aluminum radiator similar to Griffin, that and the best SPAL fan there is, the tune kicks it on at 180F and the stock pusher is operable aswell as a mini fan I was able to fit, not sure what temperatures the aux pushers are set to, The issue is also the idle as in order to make the car drive well with all the performance pars idle is 900+ RPMs and hangs at lights for a bit at 1200, hot cams long tubes all makings things hot, the car has MLS HG.

    But my question still remains, I’m not going to win races with coolant temps at 220-230 but is it safe enough to drive the car and not hurt it do I pull over to shut down when things are at 230f or keep driving? or should I leave it a home the car can’t manage 90F ambient especially on humid day, when does things boil over?

  5. #5
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    But my question still remains
    What's the question? Street driving as your original question seemed to indicate, or track runs, which it seems you're on to now...? Sorry if I didn't take the original hint

    Quote Originally Posted by ricardoa1 View Post
    performance pars idle is 900+ RPMs and hangs at lights for a bit at 1200, hot cams long tubes all makings things hot, the car has MLS HG.
    A mod'd car that's being hammered on at the track needs all the help it can get, including common sense to lay off when engine metrics go high. All I can say is t's up to you to watch those numbers which will be specific to your example. Again, I think the key is saturation of both the cooling system and air charge. It might not overheat the cooling system and boil, but if timing is being pulled, continued racing seems pointless.

    Adding countermeasures is a wash/rinse/repeat strategy where as you add something that helps deal with heat, you push the envelope more because you can, which leads to yet another round of countermeasures, which include bigger radiator, meth injection, ice cans, pit fans, etc. etc.

    When using a stock SC as a baseline, remember that Ford didn't spec a 180°/low stat for the simple reason that fuel burn on the SC, back in those day's emission standards, couldn't be optimized at that lower level. Ford -wanted- a hotter running engine on the street. Moving to the track, all bets are off and the stock system is faced with conditions it was never meant to handle. Asking where's the sweet spot/limit differs car/to/car.
    Last edited by KMT; 07-03-2020 at 10:59 AM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMT View Post
    What's the question? Street driving as your original question seemed to indicate, or track runs, which it seems you're on to now...? Sorry if I didn't take the original hint



    A mod'd car that's being hammered on at the track needs all the help it can get, including common sense to lay off when engine metrics go high. All I can say is t's up to you to watch those numbers which will be specific to your example. Again, I think the key is saturation of both the cooling system and air charge. It might not overheat the cooling system and boil, but if timing is being pulled, continued racing seems pointless.

    Adding countermeasures is a wash/rinse/repeat strategy where as you add something that helps deal with heat, you push the envelope more because you can, which leads to yet another round of countermeasures, which include bigger radiator, meth injection, ice cans, pit fans, etc. etc.

    When using a stock SC as a baseline, remember that Ford didn't spec a 180°/low stat for the simple reason that fuel burn on the SC, back in those day's emission standards, couldn't be optimized at that lower level. Ford -wanted- a hotter running engine on the street. Moving to the track, all bets are off and the stock system is faced with conditions it was never meant to handle. Asking where's the sweet spot/limit differs car/to/car.

    Not at the track I mean during normal operation, just getting point A to B. 180-190 is obviously desired for best performance on a modified vehicle when racing at the track, as it give head room for increases before shutting down.

    I’m questioning a ride to the park or to the beach with temps at 220 for a prolonged amount of time as AC adds to the condition and can the car handle boost at those temps regardless of hindered performance.

  7. #7
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    Got it, thanks.

    My opinion is yes, in that example, with a properly maintained car, it can handle it.

    If a car boils out in that example, something basic needed fixing before you went out.

    Ken

  8. #8
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    Thanks Ken, While I love to go full size radiator, I’m not currently in a position to do so.
    Parades and cruising are the cars function, and it appears that the system has some capacity so it’s not completely trash. I do get encouraged to show off and let it lose and sometimes my starting temperature is already in the 210-215 range. 230 makes me have a heart attack, I am also concerned with hot spots and boiling over. Maybe I should give
    Evans coolant to allow these rare cases where ambient is over def 90f. which is not all that common, but all it takes is one traffic jam, some humidity and mid sun and I might be sitting on the side of the road hood open steaming.
    Last edited by ricardoa1; 07-03-2020 at 03:54 PM.

  9. #9
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    I know we spoke about this exact issue with my car while on the power tour in 2018. If I remember correctly our engines and overall setups are pretty similar. On the tour prior to getting the pusher fan hardwired to a manual switch and a hi-po rad setup my car saw 240-260 temps in stop and go with the OE rad.

    The MLS gaskets and ARP studs have kept the engine together at times that I felt were certain head gaskets failures.

    If the worst you're seeing is 230 motor on.

    Question...do you have header wrap on your long tubes? I'm thinking I may wrap mine to reduce heat in the engine bay.

    Sadly I feel the only way we will ever get around the over heating issues is to replace the MP Front mount...

    -Tim
    Last edited by Tim Groth; 07-03-2020 at 05:13 PM.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMT View Post
    When using a stock SC as a baseline, remember that Ford didn't spec a 180°/low stat for the simple reason that fuel burn on the SC, back in those day's emission standards, couldn't be optimized at that lower level. Ford -wanted- a hotter running engine on the street. Moving to the track, all bets are off and the stock system is faced with conditions it was never meant to handle. Asking where's the sweet spot/limit differs car/to/car.
    So our cars are meant to run hotter for the sake of better emissions? Since our cars are now too old to get an emissions test, does that mean making them run closer to 180-190 degrees F is a good idea in general?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick_Leuce View Post
    does that mean making them run closer to 180-190 degrees F is a good idea in general?
    If you run a 180° stat, you should also use a chip that allows modified fan turn-on temp etc. Feel free to search for those threads.

    Ken
    Last edited by KMT; 07-04-2020 at 11:37 AM. Reason: removed misinformation - thanks Dave for the correction

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Groth View Post
    I know we spoke about this exact issue with my car while on the power tour in 2018. If I remember correctly our engines and overall setups are pretty similar. On the tour prior to getting the pusher fan hardwired to a manual switch and a hi-po rad setup my car saw 240-260 temps in stop and go with the OE rad.

    The MLS gaskets and ARP studs have kept the engine together at times that I felt were certain head gaskets failures.

    If the worst you're seeing is 230 motor on.

    Question...do you have header wrap on your long tubes? I'm thinking I may wrap mine to reduce heat in the engine bay.

    Sadly I feel the only way we will ever get around the over heating issues is to replace the MP Front mount...

    -Tim
    Yes Tim we are the last of the Moheckans when it comes to rocking the MPIC, which overall works well when under 80f ambient. Ruining 50/50 things aren’t supposed to boil over till past 250f with a 14psi cap, I’m running a 16psi cap. If just running water that number is more like 230. I can behave past 220f if it means getting home that day but don’t want warped heads or busted valve seals etc if it can’t take it. My 6.0l truck runs at 210f in hot summer, and can creep up. Comparing to a properly working stock SC is what I would like to get my comfort level before having to pull over and do like the old timers do during car events and wait out the traffic.
    Last edited by ricardoa1; 07-03-2020 at 08:05 PM.

  13. #13
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    Engine temperature does not affect fuel ratio and low temps do not cause it to burn appreciably more fuel. If you can keep the engine at 160 it will still run at 14.7 AFR just like at any other temp.

    The stock fan kicked on at 220 deg. 228 was considered cause for the high speed to kick in. Don't believe me? Download your stock tune and look.

    Just drive it. If you boil over, replace your radiator cap and try again. Most likely it's bad. Caps should be replaced regularly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller View Post
    Ya thats why i tape mine down. People think its bc i dont have a moonroof seal (which is true) but its really to keep my roof from ripping off .
    Email me here.

  14. #14
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    Thanks Dave for the word of confidence. I don’t get to see these scenarios very often and partly the reason why I never done much about it.

    What are your thoughts on Evans as added safety to be able to hoon in the less than ideal days?
    A lot of people tend to complain their car runs hotter after switching which would be ok given the hot spot protection, but oil thinning starts to play into it and radiant heat transferring to the supercharger and pipes and IC on ideal days. The point I am trying to illustrate is while I might have good protection on dessert heat, what happens to performance on a nice cool night when the engine now radiates more heat from running warmer on Evans, engine temperature/bay temperatures then accelerating temperatures on components outside the engine IC, Tubes and SC?

    I’m I better off just leaving it alone to at least get top performance on ideal days?
    Last edited by ricardoa1; 07-04-2020 at 07:41 PM.

  15. #15
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    Ricardo, just drive the car and enjoy it. You're not going to blow it up. If it starts to run 230+ degrees and that makes you nervous than stop beating on it and go back to driving it normally. You have had that car for years now and have yet to have an overheating issue. Don't go looking for a problem where one doesn't exist!

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