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Thread: Hot summer days and the SC

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ira R. View Post
    Ricardo, just drive the car and enjoy it. You're not going to blow it up. If it starts to run 230+ degrees and that makes you nervous than stop beating on it and go back to driving it normally. You have had that car for years now and have yet to have an overheating issue. Don't go looking for a problem where one doesn't exist!
    Hey Ira long time we don’t talk.
    How are you making out in FL with temperatures and your car, Yours is still on the MPIC. I was just doing my due diligence I know Evans was a conversation a while back but wonder if things were not at effective as they say it was. I was curious.
    I’ve driven the car a few times since those hot days and the urgency kinda goes away when you realize things are back to normal in mild weather.

    Question for the BE users on the 94 strategy. I don’t see a scaler for the 3rd fan (AUX) that the 94 had. PID EDF3HP is the only place I see it and it’s only a switch that says Yes or No. Is there no temperature control on this fan? I swear SCT had a scalar to program it, is this not the case for BE? Maybe I need to leverage these fans again but not sure BE can do it unless it’s the stock setting, anyone remember what that temperature is?
    Last edited by ricardoa1; 07-07-2020 at 08:23 PM.

  2. #17
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    .................

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricardoa1 View Post
    Hey Ira long time we don’t talk.
    How are you making out in FL with temperatures and your car, Yours is still on the MPIC. I was just doing my due diligence I know Evans was a conversation a while back but wonder if things were not at effective as they say it was. I was curious.
    I’ve driven the car a few times since those hot days and the urgency kinda goes away when you realize things are back to normal in mild weather.

    Question for the BE users on the 94 strategy. I don’t see a scaler for the 3rd fan (AUX) that the 94 had. PID EDF3HP is the only place I see it and it’s only a switch that says Yes or No. Is there no temperature control on this fan? I swear SCT had a scalar to program it, is this not the case for BE? Maybe I need to leverage these fans again but not sure BE can do it unless it’s the stock setting, anyone remember what that temperature is?
    No idea anymore what that setting is. I have used BE to set the fans to run in sync for years now. On and off together, and no, I don't remember the temp settings. I wasn't so worried about overheating because if I stomped on it in small bursts the air flow temps never went above 90 degrees and that helped keep the engine from running hotter. But there were problems sitting in traffic in the middle of the summer, yes. but after all these years of running these engines hard and at the horsepower levels we do, I am just used to it. In fact since I am in FL now I've decided to have a little work done to the cooling system now to combat that. I don't want to say anything about it yet until I know if it will work though. But I will tell you that it is something that you have long ago considered and ruled out doing, so it isn't something you will consider again.
    Last edited by Ira R.; 07-07-2020 at 09:54 PM.

  4. #19
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    I used to come up with crazy ideas but at this point you are right not interested in reinventing the wheel.
    What I got seems to work ok,
    Are you sure you donít have the pusher wired to the HI wire? From what I see in my options I donít see how to make it work like you say unless I leverage the Hi wire. The pusher fan wonít do much but might help cool the condenser and push the itís hot air to the sides while sitting allowing the radiator fan to suck up slightly less hot air.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricardoa1 View Post
    I used to come up with crazy ideas but at this point you are right not interested in reinventing the wheel.
    What I got seems to work ok,
    Are you sure you donít have the pusher wired to the HI wire? From what I see in my options I donít see how to make it work like you say unless I leverage the Hi wire. The pusher fan wonít do much but might help cool the condenser and push the itís hot air to the sides while sitting allowing the radiator fan to suck up slightly less hot air.
    Yes, I'm sorry if I gave you the wrong impression. The pusher fan and the radiator fan are wired to the HI wire, and set to run in concert with each other. We installed the largest pusher fan we could find that would fit, a SPAL 2000cfm, and having it makes a big difference. That being said, you know that if I get on it in the heat down here it still isn't enough to prevent the heat from building up.

  6. #21
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    So the heat got to SPAL fan as expected running 100% this will be my third spal fan that has quit and stated to draw too much amperage. So on a new quest to repair and resolve the issues, as a last attempt before having to give up on the MP FMIC, this time going for dual fans. I found some Moshimoto 10Ē blade fans that flow and an amazing 1500-1600 CFMs each, I would like to figure out what is the best way to run these two powerful fans without melting stuff. I was thinking one right from the low speed wire using the vehicle wiring and the second one to the high speed wire, then having BE overlap the high and low. So low starts at 190 and Hi start higher if needed? will that work?
    The alternative is to power one and a relay with the high speed wire and 2nd with the lo wire which will get switched to the relay power when the hi speed wire triggers it. That will run both.

    Guess I need help figuring it all out and the best approach, most dual fan cars have sequential starts to not overload the system since at start is when most amperage is drawn.

    So can both hi and lo run simultaneously or is the computer and relay module only doing one or the other?
    Last edited by ricardoa1; 08-23-2020 at 09:03 PM.

  7. #22
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    Might be time to get off the stock systems, and isolate new fans on their own relays, direct circuits and temp triggers. I'm sure Mishimoto could hook you up with all you'd need, including wiring diagrams.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by KMT View Post
    Might be time to get off the stock systems, and isolate new fans on their own relays, direct circuits and temp triggers. I'm sure Mishimoto could hook you up with all you'd need, including wiring diagrams.

    The SPAL was on an external relay, not trying to reinvent the wheel, they advertise 10A during continuous use but I doubt that’s accurate with how much flow they put out, I want two fans as a safety net. In case one fails also will allow me to run a thicker fan and the motor not hit the water pump pulley. If I pull this off it will be revolutionary for the MP FMIC ppl these fans are used in drift cars and sound like buzzing hornets nest. Kinda excited try it and hopefully do endurance stuff with the car.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WzPkem2liws
    Last edited by ricardoa1; 08-23-2020 at 11:01 PM.

  9. #24
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    When you said "I was thinking one right from the low speed wire using the vehicle wiring", which wire did you mean, exactly, assuming you're looking for a trigger and not power? Low speed power at the stock fan, or EEC feed for the low speed relay in the IRCM? Remember, there is a fan cutoff at a certain highway speed, and a fan forced-on when A/C is engaged.


    ...these fans are used in drift cars and sound like buzzing hornets nest
    If that's all you're after, wouldn't playing cards in the wheel spokes be a lot less expensive...no wiring needed...?
    Last edited by KMT; 08-23-2020 at 10:13 PM.

  10. #25
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    It depends if I am going to run a shroud on them, with one, both fans need to be on otherwise hot air will just circulate from the stalled fan, path of least resistance. Or as an alternative I run a divider or pin it straight to the fins.

    If both need to be on simultaneously, I wanted to have a delay if I run a shroud. The stock wiring will power fan 1 with the Lo wire. When Hi wire goes hot it will run fan 2 and trigger the relay to power the number 1 fan. So if have Lo to turn on at 190f and Hi to turn on at 191f. This will provide a cushion, and will be on two separate circuits on case of a problem I wont be stranded with a totally overheating car.

    The alternative with no shroud would be no external relay and just have Fan 1 on the Lo wire and Fan 2 on the Hi wire. Assuming I can overlap the Hi setting over the Lo setting in BE. For example Run fan at 190on and 184shut off, but have Hi start at 195F if the Lo fan cant get the job done. Will both wires run if I force it on BE or is the IRCM only do one circuit or the other? Are there there even two circuits? Or is it just one and the relay does either HI or LO but not together.

    I can live with the noise, if it fixes my car without going true FMIC. I actually love the MPIC, I love the Pipes and the flow of the IC. alot of big HP mills achieve it with this IC and I am skeptical using anything else.
    Last edited by ricardoa1; 08-23-2020 at 11:00 PM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by ricardoa1 View Post
    ...or is the IRCM only do one circuit or the other? Or is it just one and the relay does either HI or LO but not together.
    There are two fan circuits/relays (example '90 SC).



    I did some testing and confirmed that if the hi circuit is on, so is lo. We're told the factory expects that if hi is commanded on, lo is already on and the fan spinning under load, since if hi was suddenly turned on alone it would risk spiking a too high current draw.

  12. #27
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    Using three 5 pin BOSCH relays, you could wire them where LO is the two fans in series, and HI is the two fans in parallel.

    Let me see if I have a drawing for that ... Found one!

    Name:  gallery-of-dual-fan-relay-wiring-diagram-cooling-relays-page-2-ls1tech-camaro-and-firebird-forum.jpg
Views: 119
Size:  24.1 KB

    I would say that you'd connect FAN LOW to PCM FAN CTRL 1, and the FAN HI to PCM FAN CTRL 2 AND 3, to make the magic work.

    That puts them in series for lower fan speed (and lower noise!) when LOW speed fan would be commanded; puts them in parallel (for max CFM) on HI speed fan.

    All it takes is three BOSCH relays - one must be 5 pin, the other two can be 4 pin (but I'd buy a set of 5 pinners because, well, they're cheap in quantity.)

    EDIT: That "IGN HOT" line may need to go to ground to run the fans; the IRCM output is to supply the 12V. If, however, you pick up before the IRCM, then it needs to go to IGN HOT. Just as a note.

    RwP
    Last edited by RalphP; 08-24-2020 at 08:24 AM.

  13. #28
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    Excellent info gentlemen.

    Ralph I like the parallel idea. Never knew fans can be run like that to slow them down. That would help with longevity assuming at low speeds it gets it done in mild temperatures. Feeling positive!

  14. #29
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    I finished installing the new Mishimoto fans, I cant share pics they are always too big! And unfortunately summer decided to pack it up and temps in Boston are mid seventies, so just like every year my fan takes a dump, testing will have to wait till next year. I just need to wire the relays in the above mentioned manner, I juiced the fans viathe battery it was impressive, wind gushed like a stock fan which does a great job. I also took my time to rubber foam all seams on the shroud plate, and I also added foam on the IC and lower radiator to ensure the only air drawn is from outside and not from areas in the engine bay, I did it by running two strips vertically of window AC insulation foam between the IC and Condenser. Any air will have to pass through the front of the car ONLY, via the Condenser then IC then to radiator. Anyways, hoping for the best. My voltage is back up to 13.6 at idle with nothing on so I'm glad the charging system was not my problem, let see with everything on what it will drop to but I think I will be fine, I feel like I am getting to a good place with the car mechanically speaking, the low voltage was probably causing my misfires I had short on the fan wire causing issues over bumps, a hot mess.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by RalphP View Post
    Using three 5 pin BOSCH relays, you could wire them where LO is the two fans in series, and HI is the two fans in parallel.

    Let me see if I have a drawing for that ... Found one!

    Name:  gallery-of-dual-fan-relay-wiring-diagram-cooling-relays-page-2-ls1tech-camaro-and-firebird-forum.jpg
Views: 119
Size:  24.1 KB

    I would say that you'd connect FAN LOW to PCM FAN CTRL 1, and the FAN HI to PCM FAN CTRL 2 AND 3, to make the magic work.

    That puts them in series for lower fan speed (and lower noise!) when LOW speed fan would be commanded; puts them in parallel (for max CFM) on HI speed fan.

    All it takes is three BOSCH relays - one must be 5 pin, the other two can be 4 pin (but I'd buy a set of 5 pinners because, well, they're cheap in quantity.)

    EDIT: That "IGN HOT" line may need to go to ground to run the fans; the IRCM output is to supply the 12V. If, however, you pick up before the IRCM, then it needs to go to IGN HOT. Just as a note.

    RwP
    Almost had it working, both fans turned on at 6v each when Lo went hot, but when the Hi wire goes hot the monkey wrench on my car is that the LO speed shuts off. So Iím left with only one operating at 12v while the second one takes a break. Argh! It gotta figure out how to energize the relay that goes dead on Hi setting. Rechecked everything 3 times, spent hours soldiering etc.

    Also alternator takes a dive when things get hot on the car still dropping voltage as temps increase, voltage reading mid 11s. What are most of you seeing when car is on idle and AC and lights are on?

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