Idea on Intercoolers

Very interesting...

I'll have to look at the april issue, didn't know it'd be out before next mo.

Since it hasn't been tested in daily driving, I wonder how long this "coolant" lasts. Using an electrical charge I'd think it wouldn't last forever.

I like the idea of the short and wide IC.

Chris

Sam,

I totaly agree with you about keeping an open mind and adapting mods from other cars to the SC. I'm always looking for ways to do the same thing.

A good example of that is the propane injection system I have installed on my car that was intended for use on a twin turbo Dodge Stealth. The system functions fine, my engine just doesn't like it...runs pig rich and looses power.

I'll try more tuning and a flip chip this summer. I'm also interested in ways to get more cooling from the intercooler, such as c02 or nitrous cooling systems.

David

Right now, I'm leaning most to a horizontal IC, but found this other type of IC just by chance. I believe with the horizontal (ground clearance watched) you get better air flow from under the car, and it frees up room above to get a wider radiator. Just some thoughts at the drawing board right now. I'll look close at the specs of this new type of IC, though to see what the catch is. Obviously, nothing is 100% efficient (much to our dismay) so being electric, the power has to come from somewhere. I'm just not sure how much of a strain it will put on the electrical system. It does sound very tempting at face value though. If the info isn't in the literature, I should ask about the current pull, flow rating (I'm sure is adequate), pressure loss. What other things do I need to ask about. I'm tired right now and not thinking all that clear. (Read, "My wife is waiting for me in he other room.") Let me know of anything else I need to ask about.

Here's the information:

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Albuquerque, NM
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I spoke with the guy a minute ago. The device is a thermoelectric cooler. It draws 36 amps, "charge" time is 3 minutes, about 40 seconds of cooled air with a 12 minute recycle time. It is used b4 the supercharger.

It is the same thing I was going to try a few years ago, that I mentioned in another thread.

I finish posting later.

Jeff

Sounds like money is your main concern, if so you need to add
all the costs for the manufacturing of the cold air tubes and hardware, also sounds like they will have a complicated routing design . These expenses could run several hundred $$$, adding that to the $1500.00 for the core. In the end you may have a lot
more time and money in a system that will not work as hoped.
Thats why you pay $1500.00 for a system like MP's the R&D
takes time and money.

Basically this a thermoelectric cooler but with a slight variance. He claims that the cold side of the system is cooled down to –40 deg (at extremely cold temps they are the same, -40F = -40C). There is only one way to do this and that is to stack the thermoelectric modules in series mechanically. This means that the hot side of one thermoelectric is placed to the cold side of the next. Then several of these stacked modules are placed onto a heatsink evenly spaced. The modules are sandwiched between another heatsink so that there is a hot side and a cold side. This allows a 140 temperature differential between the 2 sides. And they will pull the rated differential. Last week I had my system down to 5.7 F this took about 40 minutes and is less than optimal.

Thermoelectric cooling devices are not made of silicon, they are bismuth telluride. Efficiency issues ? This system can be switched on and off during normal driving to keep the inlet temps below ambient (that’s inlet b4 the supercharger) and can stay on for increased cooling b4 a run. The stock IC remains untouched since it installs b4 the throttle body. I’m not pimping this dudes stuff, $1600 is steep. I could make and sell the same thing for a little less than a grand. I have almost all the parts to build the same thing, I’m only missing the larger modules to cascade for the increased temp differential. I wasn’t given all the information here I am guessing on some of the things that they are doing based on the information that I have collected over the years and the experimentation I have done. These guys are using an aircooled heatsink on the hot side that limits the amount of time that the device can be on. With a 36amp draw this would be about the limit I would run on a stock charging system. With a larger battery and a higher output alternator more draw could be possible.

Jeff

why cool before the blower, All the heat is generated in the eaton? Sure it will make some difference, but that's not where you want to cool the air.

Brian

It might make a huge difference. Roots blowers heat up the air about 18 deg per psi.

So at 15psi that's about 270deg above ambient. So on a 90 deg day that's about 360 deg. If you cool the inlet temp to 60 deg then you have a exit temp of 330 and that's b4 the stock IC. They said that's it's actually much lower than that. Then since the device is so cold condensation forms and gets sucked into the engine and acts like water injection. Here in Texas I could make water out of thin air it's so humid (for real!)Putting it after would probably work better, but I'm not sure of too many variables to say. So that's about a 3% increase in HP. I'm sure that those #’s are conservative. They also claimed a 60hp increase on a Mustang (don’t remember which model) with a centrifugal supercharger.

Jeff

Jeff,

What method is used to remove the heat from the air. Is there some sort of heat exchanger that incoming air passes through before the MAF ? Also, how would it ever get cold if air is always flowing over the surface ?

I too am having trouble with the concept of cooling before the supercharger, why not cool after it and just before entering the engine. With the system your describing, I don't see how the air temp can be below ambient. If it managed to stay colder than outside temps after the supercharger, then the stock intercooler and IC pipes would warm it back up.

It is however very interesting, so please tell us more.

David

I think cooling the inlet air and then routing it through the stock IC tubing ect would be somewhat counterproductive. This system would work best with an inverted blower that feeds directly into the motor. By doing so you eliminate the pressure drop accross the stock IC and increase the efficiency of the system. This would reduce the amount of HP required to spin the blower at any given manifold pressure, giving you more HP with less internal stress on the motor.

I am working on a pretty neat prototype liquid intercooler. It won't be done for another few weeks, and I don't have any plans to manufacture a kit. But when it's done and dynoed, I'll provide more info to share

David,

The design in question is a thermoelectric cooler. It’s the same principal as the Igloo cooler/warmer that you can plug into a car cigarette lighter. These devices use electricity to move (pump) heat from one side of the device to the other side. As we all know there is no such thing as cold, just absence of heat, so as heat is removed from the heatsink that side gets very cold and heat is removed from the air passing over it. How much heat? That depends on the surface area of the heatsink the time the air is in there and just how cold you can get the heatsink. Basically it does the same function as the evaporator core for your AC only it is the incoming air to the engine.

I agree that a better job would be to remove heat after the stock IC b4 it enters the engine. Max operating temperatures for TEC’s are between 150C-200C (302F-392F) so adding the device after the IC would probably be over the limit. I seem to remember that the solder was the limiting factor.

Couga’ Dave,

I agree. Last night I was thinking that for a race only system you could remove everything from the blower top to the lower manifold adapter. Then block off the bypass. Make a one piece SC top with the outlet running back the windshield and dropping straight down into the manifold. A one-piece affair, four bolts for the “top” and 3 for the lower manifold (extra long of course). The same type of device but turned upside down so that the heatsink fins also act as a diffuser. It might still work as long as it was drag only (only short high temps).

Brian,

I would like to hear about your idea, email me when you get a chance.

Jeff

ya got mail!