How Much $$ is this performance mod worth?

Just finished some final stage R&D on a new performance part and I got to thinking, what's the real dollar value of this part to the enthusiasts. Well, the SC enthusiast anyhow.

What would be the MAXIMUM price range you'd pay for a single component that:

1) You can install in 10-15 minutes with basic tools

2) Will give you a smoother idle

3) Will make engine acceleration smooth out AND charge faster & harder all the way to redline

4) Will give you a 15-20 HP gain on stock SC engine and components (but can be used in ANY vehicle- FI or Carb)

5) Will no affect driveablity or trigger check engine light in any way regardless of modifications.

6) and help fuel economy about 25%

i'd say it would be worth around $150 to me.

however me being on a tight budget for my SC, i'd probably hold out to find a used one someday for $100.

Jeff

More power and easier to install than, say, a raised top, CAI, or blower pulley? I'd be willing to pay $200 or so, but it would be important to know if id helped out in ways like the parts above, or if it just gave power down low for instance.

NMI

Have to know what it is b4 I put a price on it.

Jeff

I couldn't imagine what could do that reliably on a stock engine; but if it was real & not similar to that tornado air block I would probably pay up to 200.

Well, there is one thing I could imagine doing that, but I don't think this is it. It would be interesting if it was though..

$10/HP sounds about right to me... say $150-$200

Twist Disc UPDATE

Hello,

I'm reaching out from the NJ Thunderbird and Cougar Club. I've been working on a throttle body design/modification that has proven itself quite well in 5.0 and 3.8 V6 SC applications.

I will be holding a dyno session May 10th in Hackensack, NJ on a Saturday. Primedia (MMFF, Popular Hot Rodding, etc.) have been contacted to come and hopefully bring 3 of their vehicles.

If anyone of you would be willing to use your car as a test vehicle at the event or know of someone willing for prototype testing please let me know. Selected test cars will be able to run for free if they allow my invention to be tested on them.

The Vehicle WISH List is:
Turbo 4/Modular/Zetec/SHO Ford, Sup'd 3800/Turbo 6,
LT1 GM, Mazda RX7, DC PT/Neon/318/360.

As I will be booking the whole day, there will some left over time available. If there are interested parties the price is set for $65 for 45min. There will be THREE slots available. Slots will be filled on a first come first served basis.

Please reply by email or call me if you are interested or would like
more information.


Jesse
Blckonyxx@yahoo.com
201-686-4288

haha! anyone who's been up at 3 or 4 in the morning and cant sleep knows that this could only be the Tornado FuelSaver! Increase your Gas Mileage by up to 25%!! Increase HP by 5-20HP!!

www.tornadofuelsaver.com

nahh, maybe he's not talking about that, but its pretty close

Similar but better...

Just got all our dyno runs in this past Sat.

Sadly the 5.0 HO suffered a bad fuel pump and the dyno spazzed out when the SC went on. Only got 187 HP and 271TQ out of the SC. Next time we'll get it right!

Still both cars dropped about 200 RPM's in idle and idled smoother. My brother has averaged 2.5 MPG more in fuel economy taking the same route to work/home every day over the past 1.5 months.

The 4.6 Mustang GT Peak Power (where the torque and HP line meet) stretched 750 RPM's higher and picked up 24HP at that point. A/F ratio also dropped to around 12:6 from 14.5. Which you high speed guys know makes better power AND runs your engine cooler.

Better yet, it made better numbers all by itself than a custom chip AND 70MM modification put together.

Dyno charts will be up later this week on our webpage stay tuned.

Let's see a Tornado do that!!

Jesse

So what's the story?

Dyno Results

...were INCONCLUSIVE.

The A/F ratio's went up on some cars, down on others. Torque went up on most cars and down on other.

HP numbers went down, however, all vehicles accelerated faster.

Go figure.

Next test. Throttle Body bench flow at local universities.

Jesse

figured it out!!

OH...yeah. I finally figured out how it works!

I was somewhat distracted with my brother's 305/350 engine project, my SC Bird swap and getting the Associate Editor position with Primedia (MMFF, High Performance Pontiac, etc.

Took me a lot of head scratching and consulting engine performance books, old physics notes and mechanical engineer professors...but I got it.

I couldn't figure out why the N/A test vehicles were accelerating faster, but getting LESS HP and a richer A/F ratio.

Then it hit me...

The invention doesn't just allows more air to come into the engine like a bigger TB would, it actually boosts manifold pressure. Bigger TB's just increase air volume, but the speed remains the same, based on engine RPM/vacuum. My TB increases the SPEED of the air flow, obviously also increasing the flow too. EEC's aren't programmed from the factory to read for boost...only vacuum. So to get true HP gains I'm going to have to get a laptop tuner to properly compensate. (I can post the whole write up on it if anyone is interested).

So, right now I found a TB manufacturing company in FL that will hopefully turn out to manufacture the invention along with a custom tuned runner intake manifold for the supercoupe 3.8.

As of now I'm in talks with a few local universities to bench flow test the invention for speed AND flow data.


Jesse

“Still both cars dropped about 200 RPM's in idle and idled smoother. My brother has averaged 2.5 MPG more in fuel economy taking the same route to work/home every day over the past 1.5 months”

I don’t understand why the idle RPM would drop, since it’s controlled by the computer. Please explain.


“The 4.6 Mustang GT Peak Power (where the torque and HP line meet) stretched 750 RPM's higher and picked up 24HP at that point. A/F ratio also dropped to around 12:6 from 14.5. Which you high speed guys know makes better power AND runs your engine cooler.”


What causes the A/F to change? Was this an NA engine or SC engine?

“I couldn't figure out why the N/A test vehicles were accelerating faster, but getting LESS HP and a richer A/F ratio.”

Probably because a NA engine likes a slightly leaner A/F than a SC engine.

“The invention doesn't just allows more air to come into the engine like a bigger TB would, it actually boosts manifold pressure. Bigger TB's just increase air volume, but the speed remains the same, based on engine RPM/vacuum.”

A larger TB would allow for an increase in volume, but if all other things are equal the speed of the air through the TB will drop.


“My TB increases the SPEED of the air flow, obviously also increasing the flow too. EEC's aren't programmed from the factory to read for boost...only vacuum. So to get true HP gains I'm going to have to get a laptop tuner to properly compensate. (I can post the whole write up on it if anyone is interested).“


Unless it’s a Speed Density system that is already at the limit then the EEC will compensate for the increase in airflow. An engine that is setup correctly can have a VE of more than 100% so please explain.

Thanks,

Jeff

answers

Well Jeff...I'll try to answer some of your questions...can't answer them all yet...hence the continuous R&D and pending flow bench tests.

"I don’t understand why the idle RPM would drop, since it’s controlled by the computer. Please explain."

The computer does not simply maintain an RPM idle in a numeric fashion as you and I look at it (e.g. 750 RPM's). It takes into account all of the sensors readings. Quite honestly, only the software engineers know exactly how the EEC works as they programmed the parameters and the countless backup and default loops. Only they know ALL of the little details that can make the maximum efficiency out of computer controlled engines through EEC manipulation such as, 'what sensor is a primary input sensor and under what conditions?'

That said, I can only give you answer based on mechanical and fluid dynamic theories and my comparatively limited knowledge of the EEC's true operations.

The phenamenom of the smoother and lower engine idle (experienced in N/A 5.0 and SC 3.8 Birds) is perplexing to us as the "butterfly" is completely shut at idle. Based on the inventions design, without bench testing yet, I can only speculate that the air is more directly channeled into the IAC opening providing it with a more consistent flow of air rather than the scavenging that results from turbulent airflow bouncing off the factory "butterfly".



"What causes the A/F to change? Was this an NA engine or SC engine?"

The A/F ratio dropped a single unit in a N/A 4.6 GT. It skyrocketed up 3 units in my 5.0 Bird, but that was diagnosed as a malfunctioning fuel pump. The SC 3.8 Bird dropped approx. 1 unit also, if memory serves me.

"Probably because a NA engine likes a slightly leaner A/F than a SC engine."

It's not that a SC engine LIKES a richer A/F ratio, but more a necessity to a) keep the engine running cooler and b) insure that more adequate fuel is available to deter knocking.

"A larger TB would allow for an increase in volume, but if all other things are equal the speed of the air through the TB will drop. "

Agreed.


"Unless it’s a Speed Density system that is already at the limit then the EEC will compensate for the increase in airflow. An engine that is setup correctly can have a VE of more than 100% so please explain. "

Agreed to an extent. Yes, a computer will compensate for an increase in airflow, but only under VACUUM parameters...as a rule of thumb. That is why a custom chip/EEC reprogram is necessary when adding a turbocharger, supercharger, or even an effective Ram Air system. Again, based on original EEC parameters.

That of course is/was the joy of working on pre-EEC vehicles b/c the engine was mechanically accepting of boost. But with EEC the computer will blunt "extreme" (i.e. out of parameter") modifications that alter sensor readings.

Hope I addressed your questions. Ask away b/c this is all R&D.

Jesse

every engine i have ever seen torque and horse power will always cross at or within very few r.p.m. of 5250. did not matter what cam or headers, intake,carb, or whatever. so why would this engine's torque curve differ? 5250 not 6000.

OK WHAT IS THIS ALL ABOUT!!! lmao

Horsepower and torque will always meet at 5252 because of how horsepower is measured. It is measured as a function of torque and the formula is as listed:

(Torque * RPM)
------------------- = Horsepower
5252

So, if you figure it mathmatically, at 5252 RPM torque=horsepower. How does the device raise the where the two figures intersect or for how long?

Horsepower isn't measured it's calulated.

Jeff

i would give about $100-150

RE: Snake Oil

I do so miss the ever present pessimism that takes place on this site. Particularly from those who claim to know so much, yet probably have never even turned a wrench, let alone understand the basics of the internal combustion engine. Makes remember why I began to infrequently bother posting.

Anyhow, for those of you who have expressed sincere and positive interest in this thread, thanks and here's an update.

As I don't claim to know it all, I've passed this TB design on to those who at least know more than I do. Said "snake oil" is currently being evaluated by a state university's automotive program and my most basic prototype has demonstrated significant increase swirl turbulence in the combustion chambers. A 350 TPI motor and 305 EFI motor are being set up on their dyno to run emissions, HP/TQ, and manifold pressure readings sometime next week (knock on wood).

If the numbers come out as I think they should, Professional Product TB's with this technology will be available for SC's and 5.0's by X-Mas. Wish me luck.

Jesse