the autorotor project - final update

93 Mark VIII

Registered User
After several months of troubleshooting problems, changing intercoolers, adding water injection, and changing electronics we did not make any progress. The car made 300RHWP with 8psi and with 24psi it made 300RWHP. Funny thing was that the car could only muster 300RWHP before we did the swap too, and that was with modifications that should have made atleast 350RHWP.

The answer to all of our questions came last week on the dyno. After a few pulls with the water injection on and pretty low intake temps we smelled somthing burning. Some more investigation revealed that we melted the floor on the dyno. Yes, the exhaust was SO hot that the headers were glowing and the entire floor of the dyno was as hot as a stove. The heat curled up some of the tiles and softened up all of the glue.

So where did all of the heat come from? After putting some of the smartest car people and engineers together I know we determined it's the camshaft overlap. It explains why the motor won't make more power with more boost, and why the exhaust is so hot. So now to get progress I would have to pull everything apart and change the camshaft.

This is where the project stops. It doesn't stop because we hit a wall, or because I am giving up. It stops because I can't devote enough time to get this car going in a reasonable amount of time. My own personal SC has not been drivable and I need to rebuild that transmission and put the motor back in. I also have been working about 35 hours a week with my tuning business on top of the 40 hours a week I work with my main job. At some point I will own a performance shop and perhaps continue where I left off, but right now I really need to put the focus back on taking care of business.


So for someone that's willing to spend the effort, I have everything for sale here. I am asking $2500, which I think is more than reasonable considering that there's well over $4K in parts alone. If you added up what it would cost to just upgrade your Eaton to the MP stuff with the FMIC, you would have already spent more money. Just keep in mind, this project is for someone that has some good mechanical experience.

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=30669

As for chris's car, I found a motor that I can drop in fairly quickly and make the power he is looking for... so that was the logical choice.

Brian
 
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Why not just throw in another cam in there?
What a shame about this whole project. I really wanted to see the final results if it all went right.

So what is this engine that he is getting??????
03 Cobra??
;)
 
damon, you have mail :)

ricardo, here is a dyno chart from a motor JUST like the one going in his car. While I'd like to see the autorotor get done, you can't argue with an easy swap that will net this, and especially since I got a reasonable deal:

dyno.jpg
 
I just wanted to commend you guys on your efforts. Maybe we just weren't ready for it ;) hehe... I have a feeling this isn't the last time we'll hear about a Autorotor.... *glances in george's direction*


Judging from the torque and hp nature on the dyno chart not to mention the RPM range I'm guessing it's not an 03 cobra motor as with minor mods even they'll put out 500+ HP... But it very well could be a 4.6L Blown motor...
 
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brian just had a question -Im sure u thoroughly analyzed all possibilities for the cause of ur problem-you decided that it was the cam overlap--but do you think the cams timing could have been an issue? btw what were the cam specs

I am curious as I think I have a cam timing problem with my sc
Josh
 
I believe the cam timing and cam specs are the one componet that half of the people here have right and the other half don't. I've tuned lots of SC's, and I've seen several with the same combinations have a variance of as much as 50HP. This car seemed to have a slight cam timing issue which I could deal with when tuning, but I couldn't get around the rest of it.

Brian
 
Brian,

I know folks have spent a lot of time and money developing a combination but could you give us lift and duration specs that are ballpark for what is good and what to avoid for the typical SC build up without giving away anyones secrets?
 
This is really a sin....

I know that this engine is capable of handling an Autorotor. But maybe not the 2.2L. I was thinking more along the lines of the 1.6L. Similar size in displacement as our eaton, but not as large a power draw. With a Full bore Coy II or Steigmeier engine, were looking in the 440-450 HP range. But the parasitic draw of the blower at those HP levels is over a 100hp. Dr. Fred measured it!

So I bet with a whipple, the HP draw would be less and a SC owner can get damn close to 500hp with a blower change alone.
 
damn going from 8 psi to 24 psi, should have put the horsepower way up near 500. Personally I'd regrind the cam and give it one more shot. I think its an awesome idea and all of the custom fabrication you guys did was incredible.
 
1.6L = 97.6 CI
2.2L = 134 CI

One of the problems with the eaton M90 is it is only a 90 CI displacement. It maxes out at about 850 CFM before you figure in the losses because of the RPM limits.

The 2.2L autorotor is definately the way to go, spinning nice and slow to keep the heat down.

Aaron

Wish I had the money:(
 
I just want to say thank you to Chris and Brian for devoting so much time and money to this project. In a few years, when whipples are becoming a relatively easy swap to do..........it will undoubtedly be because of the work you both have done on your SC.

The Pioneers catch all the arrows.

Micah
 
Wezar,

Lift and duration are definately not the important thing when it comes to a cam for our cars. I can tell tell you that I have a .590 lift and a .235 duration @.050 (from what I remember). The overlap and seperation are much more important for a blower motor for an example. I am not a cam tech guy but if you have to much overlap then our blower can't build and use the boost it should be able to and keep the power range down low where it should be built with our blower. I would go talk to a big name cam guy in your area and have them grind one for you. I was lucky to have Elgin Cams in my area to have several tested and proven cam grinds to choose from. Just make sure they ask you everything, meaning type of car, weight, purpose, auto/manual, stall, gears, engine, heads, boost numbers... If they don't ask, walk out.
 
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Brian & Chris,

I think you guys are doing the right thing. Plan "B" is already proven and has much more potential. Any concerns you may have had about bottom end and transmission strength should also be erased.

I hope the testing you have already done helps George's Whipple project to go a little smoother, because I think he has the same cam in his engine.

Looking forward to seeing/hearing that new engine run. BTW, I'm holding out for the new 5.4 liter GT40 engine, can you get one of those under my stock hood ?

David
 
I havn't been able to get on the web latly and I am wondering what the whipple project is? Any links or pics. of it and will it be farely easy to bolt in?

Thanks!
Shane
 
boy, Overcamming a 3.8L is pretty easy to do. Alot of the mustang 3.8L guys have found out that any more than ~215 intake ~225 exhaust actually causes them to loose power. The fastest supercharged mustangs are running best with a 205/216 and 216/225 cam (@.050 lift) and .520 lift.

I've got the 205/216 cam in my N/A (112 lope speration) and it makes better torque than the stock cam from 2500rpm to the 5000rpm mark where the power level drops off. I haven't been able to run the car on the dyno yet with the vortech @ 8-9psi as I'm still waiting on my Jerry spec tranny.
 
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