HP and Torque Question

hytorksc said:
Chris,

your SC is almost breaking into 10's with a 3.8! that's awesome. how much did this cost total roughly?

I don't even know nor do I want add it up and find out. If you count only the parts that are on my car currently probably in excess of $25000.

Chris
 
Chris' car launches substantially harder than a Viper. 1.5x 60 foot times are the norm. With nitrous the low rpm torque is a little mind boggling. I think it is also safe to say that the car has yet to make an optimized full power pass as well. :D
 
simply AWESOME. pulling 1.5's- i can't even imagine that. that's got to be very close to what a super stock drag car does.

At least i know that i could fix up my SC to run 12's for less than $25k- one would hope that it would be under $10k additional. i'm willing to invest as much as $30k in increments on a new project over the next year and a half or so, but which car will that be? i just don't know.
 
Dave, maybe "reliability" is not the right term....but you are talking more about durability.

I'm not speaking about the strength of the parts used....but the characteristics that your SC will develop once you go beyond "just bolt ons" and get into a really lumpy cam and big valve heads..

Especially on automatics, you can develop very low vacuum which could cause the car to occasionally die or stumble on itself. You also may run into issues with throttle response being very irratic and annoying as well as stumbling from hitting the rev limiter between gears if you don't get a chip to raise it through the roof. (In case you didn't know...I'm speaking of some of Tony's troubles). BUT, to some people they know that these side effects may be present and think it's a decent trade off if they can pick up a second and 10 mph through the 1/4. Not everyone knows about these characteristics thougyh.....and they think a 400HP SC will be the same SC they have now..........but with just more HP.

Also, underdrive pullies can contribute to charging problems and cooling problems. If underdrives alone don't make you run hotter, then you surely will notice increased temperatures with big head/cam packages. Some provide just an increase while others can lead to unsettling raises in temperature like David N. experienced.

And in more than a handful of very modified SC's....you can't just crank the ignition and have your SC come to life easily and predictibly. No, a lot of them have to crank crank crank, BURP, crank crank FIRE....stumble stumble, GAS IT GAS IT.....then it idles relatively smoothly (considering low vacuum again).

I'm just saying that when you go HIGHLY modified.......as it takes to get mid 12's and better..........expect to give up some of the luxuries that you might be taking for granted right now. Not everyone is prepared for their SC to become a "different animal". A lot of these guys knew the downfalls that might come with performance and were prepared to deal with them.

And again, your car might stay perfectly mild mannered as it is now....................but it would be foolish to expect the same characterists now as it would be with major work.

Be prepared. Some of these quirks drive people insane and force them to sell their cars. Which is why I'm very thankful that my car is pretty low maintenance..........even though it is slower than a lot of others.

Micah
 
Actually

I have said this befoe and I will once again tell everyone again. After transplanting all of the parts from the 35th to the current 93 the car did not breakdown until just recently at the shootout. I also drive my car everyday. I mean it is a daily driver. Yes I have given up some of the luxuries that come hand in hand with HP. For example, I now have to slide my skinny ars over a roll bar. Not a big deal for me cause I wanted to get into the 11's. However, on a 90 deg day I can still turn on the A/C and enjoy the climate control just like anyone else.

Also, my car shifts realatively soft when driving it around in normal throttle. Another downside to someone in thestreet performance mindset is my lentech valvebody. While I think its the greatest thing for the track if on the highway trying to pull a viper or 03 cobra (the lentech VB) will limit the car to Drive. It absoluely inhibits O/D. So that means my car in street trim will only topend about 125 or so. (Half the reason I now have 28" tires for the track.) I pulled a new mustang one night with a vortech I think from 40 to about 110 and got 5 carlengths in front of him as he shifted 3 times in his 5 spd. Then once the car topped out it was over for me and he caught up as I bounced off the rev limiter. (See what I mean about abuse.) That is a trade off I was willing to make to get the TRACK peformance I desired.

Like Micah has said some cars that are heavily modded are a royal PITA to start. Mine used to be until I got the entire car tuned. Not just for WOT but for starting, part throttle, etc. I could just about hand the keys to my car to anyone and tell them to go start it and it will effortlessly. Now pulling it into gear is another story. It still needs slightly more IN-Gear RPM. Only because every once in a while it will die. Just something that can be fixed with a TOTAL Tune.

If I told you guys what I have in mind for my next project you would all think I was nuts.

Oh one last thing those 1.5x short times. The very first time I took the car to the track after making the transplant and setting the nitrous up it pull a 1.55. I thought I might get a 11.5 or something with a 1.65 time or something. I wasn't prepared for that jolt and jerk that the car gives ya. It was so hard the stereo came out of the dash. The sunroof cover slides back about 12 inches.

Anyway, I have rambled on long enough. My suggestion, is build the project you want...money is only money...and all fast cars cost something.

Chris
 
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Ditto

I gotta say. After a few times of putting things together, I am pretty comfortable knowing that I could make another SC the same way I made mine for about $15k. And with the exception of not taking the time to break my bottom end in (I think), I'd be pretty confident driving my automatic from Jersey to Florida with the setup I have. Of course you have the normal breakage like a master cylinder that leaks (just so happens at this time) or something without control.

But based on the number my car achieves it can be said to be mid-12's (let you know when I finally take it down the track) and it doesn't have any drivability issues. No stalling, stumbling, sputtering or burping. Took a few times to get it right, but I'm sure a second time around it would be a walk in the park. Next is Long Tubes & Borla xs's, and of course I don't expect and drivability issues with that minor change, but sometimes you have to get issues in order to eliminate their possibilities. And there isn't a thing missing from the luxuries.

Just my experience of course. As I know we've all had headaches to get this far even. To all, I say "Good Luck & SCpeed!"

Although I admit that if I had opportunity to do it again, I might think twice when I figure almost 30k in cash over the last year. That might deter me if I believed it. ... Hmmm.. Actually, I would never believe it. In fact, I chose an SC at the time because it was something I could own (no payments) and put a go fast part or two on if I wanted. Silly Me!

Anthony
 
valuable info guys- thanks again

So if it takes a lumpy cam and other parts to get into the 11's with idle and starting issues, then i would be looking for 12's or 13's outta mine because my wife drives this thing too and she is a total air head about cars.

I want a daily driver that's not any different starting and idle-wise than what i already have, but 2 seconds faster (if possible) if i decide to mod the SC further. Right now my SC is behaving very smooth and reliable with no major issues (knock on wood), and i believe it's a mid 14 second car at best. All i have on this thing is most of the basic bolt on engine parts (except the MP stuff- was afraid to do this because of the headgasket issue) and some custom performance part/enhancements- all conservative as far as adding power goes.
If i had to estimate it's output i would say realistically it's putting out maybe 220 rwhp and 300 rwtq. i think it's close to this because i've been running with c32 AMG's and some older M3's lately.
 
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XR7 Dave said:

Reliability does not go down as performance goes up. That is a popular misconception. All the failures on my car have been the result of my own incompetance or routine part failures. I have not lost a part due to excessive HP or torque. To prove that, I drove the car to St. Louis and ran a personal best there flogging the car for all it was worth. And drove it home. I have since driven the car to Canada and put down no less than 8 balls-to-the-wall passes and drove home. I lost 3rd gear coming out of a toll booth in NY on the way up, and still ran it anyway. The tranny had well over 100K miles on it prior, and HP doesn't kill syncros' anyway, it's just abuse, plain and simple.

Yup... I haveta agree with Dave, Dave and Chris. It's usually.. ummm...an oversight that breaks stuff. I turned a rod into a banana because I was stupid. Leaving a badly tuned car in 5th with my foot on the floor for 3 miles wasn't real bright. But, since the re-rebuild I've had 25K+ miles without a failure. I too drove 600 miles to St. Louis, threw on the Quick Time Pro's, made a few passes and drove back home. Someday I'll get a real intercooler (stock with a fan) then XR7 Dave and I can have at it. If I decide to throw $1500 at it for a front mount I think Dave and I could have some real close races. :) :) Next year some time we gotta head to Norwalk or Quaker City!!
 
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