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Thread: fuel or spark ??

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    nashville,tn -----by way of akron,oh
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    554

    Thumbs up udate on the fuel and spark problem!!

    Ok the past couple weeks my check engine has been coming off and on....not a whole lot just here and there.I really didn't pay it much attention because it was running really strong,but now sometimes when i go to start it......it won't fire right up..and when it finally does i can see a faint bit of black smoke and can smell fuel.

    So i'm trying to figure out if i have a plug that's fouling out or a injector or fuel filter problem.It seems to have a slight miss to it when i'm stopped at a light but it still seems to be running ok but the light is coming on more and more.i probably need to have the codes run it and go from there but i figured i would run it by you guys first...
    BTW....the motor is new from when i bought it,but i don't know if he replaced the plugs and fuel filter.I don't think he replaced the injectors or fuel pump though.Any info would be great..
    Thanks,
    *****************UPDATE****************
    Ok today i went and had the codes run on the car..and what they came up with..
    214 DIS cylinder identification circuit failure.
    212 loss of tach input to eca; spout cicuit grounded.....but this could be because i unpluged the pip sensor by the ac unit.
    124 throttle position sensor voltage higher than expected..
    Does any one have any ideas before i start to replace things that don't need to be replaced,i need to get it running good before it goes to bed for the winter..i do have a cam sensor being held at autozone because i thought this might be problem but i just wanted some insite...
    Thanks again...
    Also thanks stocker i took your advice and had the codes run and hopefully this will get me on track...
    Last edited by v8killr; 10-09-2003 at 07:56 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Desmoines, IA
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    969

    I'll guess cam sensor failure.

    You can smell gas and black smoke during start up is a sign that the cylinders are loading up with gas so I would rule out fuel. So the eec is getting a PIP signal from crank sensor. If the EEC wasn't getting a PIP signal from crank sensor then it would not start. When the cam sensor fails this causes the EEC to guess which which cylinder to spark and this is why it may take longer to start . Your car should start within 5 seconds .

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    nashville,tn -----by way of akron,oh
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    554
    The only thing that puzzles me is the way it starts,when it try's to start it seems like the starter is binding up, then you try it the next time you stay on the key and it will keep kicking untill it starts.sometimes you have go through it like that for a few minuites then it just starts right up..
    I'm starting to think the ICM might be getting ready to go beacuse of the rpm gauge sticking, maybe that is giving off some sort of false reading......does anyone know of a way to check these to see if it's getting ready to go???

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Desmoines, IA
    Posts
    969

    The cam sensor sends the CID signal to the EEC

    CID stands for cylinder ID entification. The reason it is not starting right up is because the EEC is not receiving a good signal from the cam sensor so it has to use the PIP signal from the crank sensor. It could also be a bad connection . Your spout plug is what send the signal to the tachometer. It is a jumper located in the wire loom . It is square black plug that is not connected to anything and usually sits on top of the AC compressor or some where in this area. Check it out . IF it isn't a problem then your tachometer needle might be sticking. As far as your starter goes it might be old or the cylinders are getting so full of gas it cause a kickback or backfire. GOOD LUCK

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Desmoines, IA
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    969

    Oh yeah fouled plugs

    My car once had problems starting because the plugs were oil fouled from cranking it over to much. Soon as I would take the plugs out and clean them off then put them back in it would start right up.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    nashville,tn -----by way of akron,oh
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    554
    Is there anyway you know of to check and see if that's the problem? I will check into that plug you where talking about i think i remember seeing it around the ac. As far as it building up pressure i do think that is what it's doing because sometimes when it pulls this crap i can here it thud in the exhaust somewhere around the converter,That's another reason i thought maybe it needed some new plugs because gas was building up in the cylinders and then it ignites.
    I see your up in iowa...That's where i went to buy the car..
    Do you know David mcgaughlin?
    That's the car i bought.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Desmoines, IA
    Posts
    969

    Can't say I know DAVE.

    The spout plug also sends a signal to the EEC. If you pull this plug and run your codes you will get 18 spout circuit open or 49 spout signal defaulted to 10 degrees before top dead center meaning your EEC has went into FMEM ( failure mode effects management) to keep the car drivable.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    nashville,tn -----by way of akron,oh
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    One last thing.
    The spout plug your reffering to is that the black plug you referred to before by the ac?If not where the he(( is it,lol.
    Thanks for all your help..

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Desmoines, IA
    Posts
    969

    Yeah it is in the wire loom some where in this area.

    It is a little black square plug not connected to the motor just in line somwhere. Do a search with the words SPOUT PLUG there is all kinds of info on it. Some guys confuse the octane plug and the spout plug . The octane plug is right behind the passenger shock cover.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    St. Charles, MO
    Posts
    20,886
    I had a simalar problem with hard starts and fuel smoke. I changed nearly every sensor on the car and It turned out to be a bad fuel pressure regulator. Fuel was leaking thru the vacuum hose directly into the intake manifold. To check, pull the vacuum hose off the top of the regulator and smell your fingers to see if it's got fuel inside.

    David
    1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
    2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat...............707HP/650TQ

    My Garage

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    nashville,tn -----by way of akron,oh
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    554
    TT

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