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Thread: FRONT MOUNT INTERCOOLER

  1. #1
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    Question FRONT MOUNT INTERCOOLER

    I am in process of building a front mount intercooler using two stock IC cores side by side . The cores would be vertical with the end tanks top and bottom and the piping would all be run to the drivers side. The cores are 3" thick and I have a griffen radiator which is thicker than a stock one The IC would be mounted between the condenser & the radiator. My first problem is the stock fan shroud will be to thick to be used. I called SCP because they sell a thinner fan set up for their FMIC but they will not sell as a individual item. Is there a sorce for a thinner fan set up that will just plug in to existing wiring? Second I have no outlet for mandrel bent tubing for the piping. If I cannot find mandrel bent tubing than I will have to butt weld elbows in and grind smooth and polish, a lot of extra work. I have plenty of 2 3/8 tubing OD. Would that be the recomended size? Any input from those of you who have tackled like projects would be greatly appriciated

  2. #2
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    Not much help on the fan....but I'm sure you can get something aftermarket. Flip through a Jegs or Summit and see what they have.

    As for tubing...you'll probably want the factory 2.25 inch stuff. Go to http://www.vecco.net/

    This guy frequently sells mandrel bend tubing kits. For your application I would get everything mounted how you want and measure out the length of the legs + degree of bends. Email him what you want and see what your options are. I bet he can hook you up with the tubing for around $300.

    Micah

  3. #3
    Well I'm working on the same thing as you are and I dont think you can put the IC where you want to. I think you're going to find that you will have to put it in front of the AC condenser and really thats the best place for it anyway.
    There isnt enough room in the rad support to put the AC condenser the rad and a 3" thick IC, the needed room is just not there. You'll have to go to www.burnsstainless.com in order to get mandrel bent Aluminum tubing.
    Last edited by MIKE 38sc; 11-20-2003 at 04:26 PM.

  4. #4
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    Intercooler

    Mike: Is it possible to move the condenser forward to make the room? I was trying to make the shortest & easiest possible route for the piping to the supercharger. What size tubing would be ideal? 2.25 seems small considering 3" is the intake size. What is the OD of the supercharger top when the nut is removed? Does the condenser restrict flow of air to the intercooler? I am just trying to get a good handle on the installation. Since it is not my main transportation I can take the time to do it right. Thanks
    Last edited by kenewagner; 11-20-2003 at 07:02 PM.

  5. #5
    No you cant move the condenser forward #1 because of how it mounts and #2 if you came up with a way to mount it you would have to cut away the sheet metal that forms the air opening for the condenser and rad.
    The IC tubes are 2.5" ID. The OD on the blower top nipple is a little over 2.75".
    Yes the condenser restricts airflow through the IC but heres the kicker. During the summer when you are using the AC the condenser gets very hot and that hot air is blowing through the IC, at that point you might as well not even have an IC.
    The stock IC setup and any fans you put on it are a joke, in fact its such a blunder on Fords part that it is talked about in books written on the subject.
    That is the only thing I've ever seen written in ANY performance lit. that mentions TBird SC and it has to be an example of some ****** engineering.

  6. #6
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    Thumbs up Intercooler

    Thanks Mike: Thats a whole lot of information that I didnt have before. I take it that the major mistake with the stock intercooler is no air flow where it is located and heat from the AC condenser. I read a thread that someone wrote that the end takes on the stock IC is poorly designed causing air flow restriction. Does that sound about right for you? You said you were doing a simuilar project. Where were you thinking of running your tubeing and what size tubeing were you planning to run. It is kinda of funny that SCP and Magnum sell their FMIC behind the condenser. But Im sure that easy of installation was more of a concern than than heat from running a AC. Thanks for your help Mike

  7. #7
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    Question Intercooler

    Mike: You wouldn't happen to have some pictures of where you are on your FMIC project would you? I would love to see what someone else's ideal would look like in progress. If you can send them to my E mail kenewagner@hotmail.com Thanks

  8. #8
    Yes the stock endtanks kill the stock IC's flow, theres no smooth fluid type flow going into or out of the IC. The MP IC is not as thick as the stocker or it would'nt fit where they put it.
    Heres a pic of one of the endtanks after it has been removed from the core.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  9. #9
    Heres the end of the IC core with the tank removed.
    Notice the large thick plate tube design, these type tubes are the best flowing tubes sold today even. Notice the internal cooling fins, only this type of tube has them and that is what makes them the most efficent design at transfering heat.

    Ford is not the only people to make the mistake of putting the IC in the engine compartment, but by the time the SC was built it was already pretty common knowledge NOT to put it there but they did anyway. An IC has to be put in the path of cool air and not in the engine compartment soaking up heat from every source in there.
    I dont have any pics of my system yet because I've been so busy building Radiators lately, but I have been able to get some things done in between. My cores are preped and ready to install the new tanks and my blower top is started so before too long that will be finnished.
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  10. #10
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    Ok hold on. First off....the stock intercooler tubing is only 2.25 inch inner diameter. At least that's what it measures at the intercooler which should be the same size as the rest of it. And if not...that presents a problem in itself.

    I don't see anything horrible with the endtanks on the stock IC either. In fact the entire IC is pretty decent. It's a bar and plate design which is pretty high quality. It also is the same thickness as the Magnum Front mount IC.

    You have to remember that the Magnum kit ditches that WAY THICK stock radiator fan and goes with an ultra slim aftermarket fan which more than makes up for a couple inches. So that is how they get away with putting an IC that thick in front of the AC condensor.

    The problems with the stock IC set up are two fold. Location and plumbing. The IC is located in the engine bay and not at the front of the car. So not only is it seeing virtually no airflow, but whatever air does get to it has to pass through the AC condenser first (which acts like a brick wall).

    So it gets no airflow, which means at low speeds where it gets none...it does nothing but soak up heat. Still, it does perform good enough to fend off detonation during even the hottest days, but you can kiss performance goodbye.

    Also, the return IC tube is twisted, compressed, and runs very close to the exhaust manifold on it's way to the intake. Bad for flow, bad for picking up heat....etc... Also, the 2.25 inch diameter may be compromised as it runs by the power steering and sandwiches down to a little over an inch thick.

    I happen to be in the middle of a front mount project myself.....and I decided to remove my AC condensor. I just never used my AC and wanted to free up the room. The intercooler core that I chose measures at 20 inches X 14. 5 inches X 2 inches thick. This is the core only. Compare that to 12 X 7.75 X 3 for the stocker.

    My inlet/outlet sizes are going to be 2.5 inch....which should be fine. Not only is it bigger than stock, but David Dalke has 2.5 inch tubing on his XR7 and has seen 340RWHP and 12.6's. So I'm good with that.

    I am also ditching the stock top and building a custom front exit top. I didn't want to, but it will simplify my tubing sooooooooooooo much.

    Here is a pic of the intercooler I bought. It will fit perfectly where the AC condensor is. And I'll easily be able to fit the stock radiator between the inlet - outlet.



    Here is the top I plan on constructing.



    And I will be using stainless steel tubing as it is more durable, will polish to a higher luster, will resist oxidation, and will be easier to work with.

    I've got pics of the IC mocked up in the car and will post em soon. The only issues with this entire system will be the pressure drop of the IC core. Which I have NO idea about. The intercooler might suck pretty bad, in which case, I'll just replace it with a $600 spearco of similar spec.

    As is...i will have $600 in this front mount. Sure beats the alternative.

    Micah
    Last edited by Micahdogg; 11-21-2003 at 09:55 AM.

  11. #11
    Ah come on Micah you cant be serious about the stock tanks. They violate every rule about entry and exit from the core, #1 rule NO sharp or abrupt angle changes should take place in the endtanks. That rule is blown all to hell on both ends of the stock IC. Notice your new IC does'nt have those abrupt direction changes in it. I agree with you on the posistion of the stock IC.

    I've been building radiators for a couple of weeks now and am very familiar with that area there and you cannot put a 3" wide core in between the AC condensor and the radiator. There is only about 1 1/2" space max between the 2. The only way you could is move the rad itself back towards the engine and then you have to come up with some kind of off the wall hanger system for it to be held in the car.
    I was aware that MP used a thin fan with there install but theres been no mention of them moving the rad itself, but they may have. I just know that you cant put a 3" thick core in there without moving the rad.

    I just went and measured all the diameters again to be sure and this is what my tubes measure.
    Stock IC Tubes---2.5"
    Stock blower top--2.5"
    Stock IC inlet and outlet--2 3/8"

    We could'nt agree more about the crappy IC tubes, there pitifull.

  12. #12
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    Mike,

    The MP FMIC sits in the position where the stock radiator would normally go, it even has the two pegs that fit the lower radaitor mounts. Then the radiator is modded (remove brackets and mounting pegs) and bolts directly to 6 small studs that are screwed into the IC end tanks. This moves the radiator about 3 inches closer to the engine, and about 4" closer with a griffin radiator.

    The standard fan and shroud are replaced by a flat sheet metal shroud and low profile 16" high speed fan. MP also offers an optional 14" spal pusher fan for mounting on the AC condensor or the fromt of the IC.

    I have several pictures if you want to see some details of the installation.

    David
    Last edited by David Neibert; 11-21-2003 at 11:16 AM.
    1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
    2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat...............707HP/650TQ

    My Garage

  13. #13
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    Fmic

    The pictures I have seen of SCP FMIC show the radiator moved back to the engine and the IC setting in its place with a narrow fan and shroud to make it all fit. I have a griffen radiator and it is thicker than stock so I have even less room to make it fit if I decided to do it that way. I guess I will try to figure how to mount it in front of the condenser. I am not ready to give up AC in the summer and I dont want to go to the work of a FMIC and have the AC condenser pumping heat into the IC. I hope I see some more ideas. Thanks

  14. #14
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    FMIC

    David: Could you post the pictures here or send them to me at Kenewagner@hotmail.com SCP will not sell the narrowed fan set up by its self, only in the kit. I am hoping for some ideas and or pictures to help simplify my project

  15. #15
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    Kenewagner,

    I've got the MP FMIC with a Griffin radiator. The motor of the 16" low profile puller fan actually overlaps the waterpump pulley but it fits, and I can still change belts and tensioner pulleys without a problem.

    MP normally supplies a 14" fan and a pair of formed aluminum mounting strips (no Shroud) with the Griffin kit, but I already had the 16" fan and flat sheet metal shroud from the original install with a stock radiator and found that it would fit without mods.

    The air from the AC condensor is only hot when the AC is running and since the EEC automatically shuts the AC off under wide open throttle it is isn't producing very much heat when you need the IC most. IMO the bigger problem is with the AC condensor blocking the fresh air path to the IC and radaitor. MP offers and optional high speed 14" pusher fan that addresses that problem nicely.

    For max performance, remove the AC condensor and mount the 2nd fan directly to the IC core. I've still got my AC condensor and even with about 20% of the fins smashed closed from rocks and stuff hitting it, the 2nd fan cools intake charge enough that I can still run mid to low 12s on the motor.

    David
    1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
    2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat...............707HP/650TQ

    My Garage

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