Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 74

Thread: Supercharger rebuilding facts/probs/pics :(

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    71

    Supercharger rebuilding facts/probs/pics :(

    >>the special seals that are located in the cartridge behind the bearings, where the rotor shafts would enter the case<<
    These appear to be a special part that prevent the flow of supercharger fluid from the cartridge into the case, as well as the flow of compressed charge air (boost) from the case into the cartridge.<<

    Hi!
    If someone knows what type of seals these are and can inform me that would be nice?(saw one thread that said they would be neoprene? seals?) I just took teh first rotor/gear apart and found out that itīs pretty press fit..(have to warm the gear when putting it together too)What is the best way to get the rotor clearances right when putting it together and how to do it..since the splines in the rotor shaft are just tiny ones that have been used to get it tight at first plase..not to align the shaft? I can put it together but itīs better if someone could give me some advise..since I live far away from any rebuilding service facility. I will take some pictures tomorrow and post them here so everyone can see them. The bearings are cased too as some of you might know but that should not be the problem...(Iīll take them apart tomorrow)If right size seals can not be found I think itīs fairly easy to lathe the rotor shaft(21.80mm) and bearing seat to proper dimensions for differend seal with better availibility...
    I hope someone with knowledge of this would inform me A.S.A.P. so we could save one SC again . Mine was leaking oil to intake
    and the nose seal was gone too..but rotors are fine as everything else too..
    +any other clearance/blueprint info of the supercharger is welcome..what is the minimium clearance between case and rotors that it would still work as it should with normal RPM range.

    I have searched all the threads and found no other info of the rotor/gear thingie or proper clearances So if you know something please share your aknowledge. Iīm willing to share mine after this rebuild..we get out of this mystic rebuild ones and for all. Sorry if it takes someone out of business tho..but how many has press of their own...really. So the loss of customers is probably not an issue here. It will reguire special tools always.

    Cheers, Sami from Finland

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Coatesville, PA
    Posts
    193
    Im getting ready to rebuild mine also. I dont pay anyone to work on my stuff anyway so no loss to them.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Pecan Grove, TX
    Posts
    38

    Lightbulb supercharger seals

    After long hours of research, I've found that these seals aren't commercially available.
    You've probably found that Magnum
    wants you to send the unit in for refurb and to charge you
    big $$...sorry but that's the way they play this game!
    You can have them fabricated by a custom seal maker but plan
    on spending about 1000 bucks for them to tool up and then
    make you 2 seals! If you haven't noticed they are different sizes!
    sooo...that means 2 different sets of tooling...these seals are
    unique, the shaft diameter is not common, so you can't just buy
    any old grease seal and install. The temp rating is of concern, as
    it the design! The solution I've come up with
    is to make my own, yes, I KNOW this is crazy, but this is what
    I'm going to do....I've already got the lathe and a couple prototypes started.
    If I'm successful (and I don't see why I won't be) If you want a set, I'm sure we can work something out!
    Meantime, If you find a better solution, Id be curious to find out
    what that is! This whole scenario has been a HUGE source of
    frustration, and the 'powers that be' at the manufacturer sure
    have a captive audience on this market!
    By the way the rotor
    clearances are around .004"
    Cheers,
    Bill

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    71
    thanks for the info so far ...Yep..thatīs the way things go now days. But I will search alternative seal near the same dimensions(if the outside dimension is the same that is good..I still have the other rotor shaft in cartridge..) The rotor shafts can be lathed down to 21mm at least without any concern about strenght..since the bearing part of the shaft is as low as 17mm( and some where around even lower acting as a fuse). Gears can be locked back together and clearances met by using something between the rotors during installation. Taking in grand of the slack between the gears..hmm..maybe there is our answer . Plus the sealing base can be opened up a little. Just have to search some gatalogs for two way pressure seals for high temps..even using bearings with two/one way pressure shields
    might work as part of the solution (should be okay at least keeping the oil out of the rotor side )..since I have acces to a whole machine shop and Iīm doing mechanical engineering major that should not be a problem. I will too keep everybody updated about this thing. Looking into porting and coating the rotors as well during this rebuild process..Hope we find a way to sort out these problems

    More info welcome..nice to hear what others have allready done so we get this sorted as quickly as possible.

    cheers, Sami

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Pullman Washington
    Posts
    1,427
    I thought Wynne Carter "Tbird88" sold rebuild kits for the M90's...You may wana ask him about it...He is VERY busy right now so it may take awhile for him to get back to you...I believe that Ryan Harris is knowledgable on this as well...

    Brad

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Pecan Grove, TX
    Posts
    38

    Wink seals

    FYI,
    Wynn, otherwise known as tbird88, does sell kits.
    These are for rebuilding the snout not the rotor pack,
    unfortunately. He's also sells and engineers other cool
    stuff...like poly bushings for the rear differential...
    one other thing, before you go machining on those
    shafts, you might want to verify that they aren't surfaced
    hardened at the seal journal.
    Cheers,
    Bill from TX

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    71
    You have good point there ...I donīt want to screw that up if not necessary. it might be possible to coat it with nitrate etc. after machining tho. Seems the shaft size at seals is 21.85mm quite close to 22mm. Other seal has dimensions 21.85x33.41x7mm and other is 21.85x34.95x7 just quick measurements..If I can find something for that saft size the outer diameter can be machined to at least 35-36mm(other one is allready 35) or spacer made to down size the hole. Seal can be as much as 10mm deep too. Other thing is how to lock up the bearings again because the lip that holds them in place does in fact take care of the rotor axial movement. Bearings are standard size 6203. Originals are made by NSK and they are special type that have marking X28 at inner ring. Maybe C3 clearance would be okay . They have somekind of plastic strips at outer ring and it has something to do with shattering or preventing movement/wear in the bearings/bearing cases. Have to check if someone knows exactly why it has the stripes.There isnīt much room to make anything to bearing cases (threads/lock groove). High temperatures are not that good for clueing the bearings eather so I might do lock rings for the bearings that bolt up with small bolts to the case. This thing is really interesting ..heh. they did not intend it to be dismantled for sure. Also Iīm thinking other bearing alternatives too with high rpm range..Gears should be fairly easy to fit back tho with heating/freezing the parts . Iīll post some pictures today when I get home. No matter what I have to change, it is going to be running again ....and hopefully ported and with better performance too. Thoī I wouldnīt try to do this with hammer in the garage The snout is peace of cake compared to this baby...

    PS: the end bearings on the case are INA FC65477 if someone is interested on those...You can with other bearings there too with the same size if the rpm and heat ratings go hand in hand...and the cartridge bearings were not hard to remove at all..and you donīt need to machine the lip away. Just press them out and it takes only 500kg or so to pop emīout.... The lip is gone, but there is no way to save it if you wanīt to change the cartridge bearings..
    Last edited by suutari; 01-28-2004 at 10:14 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    St. Charles, MO
    Posts
    20,141
    The Magnum Powers rebuild does not include the bearings and seal in the rotor cartridge. From what I understand, the only place those bearings are available is Magnuson the Eaton distributor and they won't sell them.

    To fix my leaking seals I just bought a low mileage used rotor cartridge from a late model SC blower that had a little teflon flaking off for around $100. I would suggest you consider doing the same.

    David
    91 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple........10.92 @ 126.70
    93 SC AOD 347 Turbo.................10.04 @ 138.99
    My Garage

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    71
    I think they chance the rotor cartridge as whole if necessary?..but since Iīm doing a lot of other stuff too for the blower and have acces to necessary tooling..Why not. Plus I have time too. Easyer would be to buy new one. This one Will be rebuildable when I finish it and the same time Iīm learning new things. By no other means it is not the way to go if it werenīt just for fun..

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Pecan Grove, TX
    Posts
    38

    supercharger parts

    I have researched the bearings and have sourced them, all
    I need is the cash!!! All this info is at home, so when I can
    I'll post the list on this thread....can't remember all the specifics
    off the top of my head..lol...they're aircraft turbine grade,
    spec 5 rating...I'd planned on using loctite, the strongest stuff I
    can find, to lock the bearings in place. When I disassembled
    the press seemed to work quite well, and I match marked
    everything before going nuts...
    but I'm there with you on learning and
    having fun rebuilding. Not the cheapest way to go
    but at least it will be done the way YOU want!!
    Getting a used blower is wise, especially if you want
    to drive the car while working on the other.
    gotta go...
    Bill

  11. #11
    What about making a billet rotor pack plate to fit bearings and seals that you can get with the right ID sizes but maybe there OD's are either larger or smaller than the Eaton pieces?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Lakeville, MN
    Posts
    13,509
    Rotor Bearings are available. Tbird88 (wynn) has them available but you can find them yourself as well.



    http://www.datarecall.net/~tbird88/i...rts/4sale1.htm
    T-Bird How To tips - Latest, reattach glass to regulator sash clips
    90 SC AOD *SOLD*
    93 SC 5spd -441hp/462tq *SOLD*

  13. #13
    Those are the rear rotor needle bearings which are easy to get Mike. The problem as has been said is finding bearings and seals that go into the front of the rotor pack in the rotor pack plate.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Posts
    71
    I just looked into it and it would be very easy to make new cartridge from billet with CNC..not too hard, but before that I all ready sourced some seals (ptfe,viton etc.) That are maybe enough close and can take the challence..and by the way inch sizes for original seals are
    axle shaft: 55/64
    outside blue: 1"5/16
    outside red: 1"3/8
    deph: 17/64 (this can be larger too..)

    Do a ww.Google.com search with high performance seals..dual lip,viton etc..
    American high performance seals should have some..just like the originals. They had their E-mail full so could not ask about them today

    As for the bearings..you wonīt probably need that good bearings..bearings that are rated beyond 14 000rpm are not too expensive and come in standard case( maybe 5-7$ each). I found some that are rated to 22 000 and so on...price is not concern of these. How expensive are the original bearings? are they exactly
    the same ones ?

    Using the strongest bearing clue with high temp ratings is what Iīm going to use probably too when I have time to ask around the specs...or then make the locker rings that will bolt on with small screws to the support pilars(have to calculate some stuff before this ...)

    Happy to see someone else has the same project ..nice!
    Cheers, Sami

  15. #15
    Sami you have a PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •