View Poll Results: "MOST POWERFUL" list UNOFFICIAL POLL - (vote here!)

Voters
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  • SC VIN - SC BLOCK - ALL V6 UNRESTRICTED (no NOS)

    41 36.61%
  • SC VIN ONLY - ALL UNRESTRICTED (no NOS)

    7 6.25%
  • SC VIN - SC BLOCK - M90 (and versions) ONLY (no NOS)

    12 10.71%
  • SC VIN - UNRESTRICTED - NITROUS PERMITTED ( on dyno)

    12 10.71%
  • SEPERATE LISTS BY CATEGORY - VOTE TO DETERMINE

    40 35.71%
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Thread: Unofficial POWERFUL LIST vote for new rules!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
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    Unofficial POWERFUL LIST vote for new rules!

    Well, somebody had to do it, so here it is. Let's see what people REALLY want, instead of trying to sort through all the BS. I'm curious to see how this turns out, because I think it could go purest, extremist, or somewhere in the middle with relative ease.

    Here are the choices as I've seen people break it down:

    1. SC VIN, SC BLOCK, ANYTHING GOES (without nitrous) ALL V6 UNRESTRICTED
    2. SC VIN ONLY (anything else goes) NO NITROUS (on dyno)
    3. SC VIN, SC BLOCK, M90 and versions ONLY (no nitrous or power adders)
    4. SC VIN UNRESTRICTED - NITROUS PERMITTED
    5. SEPERATE LISTS - SEPERATE VOTE TO DETERMINE
    Last edited by Bill McNeil; 06-12-2004 at 09:36 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Think people might be a little excited by the Whipple project? ;-) Bet the voting would have been different prior...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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    3,242

    Talking all my cars are S.C. 's so look out......

    All the cars that I have been playing with are S.C. vin's so I guess that whatever comes from this will meen that I can get my dyno #'s posted... Boy did the mark ever get raised now.... Did someone say "Blowen big block"?????????? This could be a really good summer after all. Got to get going and get that new frame under that car......Rich
    Too many cars,too little time to drive them. Anything less than 500 cubes is a small block. If you slow down in life you will get run over..

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Ajax, Canada
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    Since this site is about the preservation and the love of Supercoupe's, I think there should be:

    SC VIN, SC BLOCK, ROOTS BLOWER (Nitrous Included)

    Why the anti-nitrous choices? It's a power adder.

  5. #5
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    SC VIN, SC BLOCK, ROOTS BLOWER (Nitrous Included)
    Steve,

    This would qualify for the "seperate choice" list.

    Once/if we determine seperate lists are necessary, we can vote again.

    Keep in mind, this is for DYNO only. This is NOT about the 1/4 mile.

    Do you really think you are preserving the SC by using NOS on the dyno?

  6. #6
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    Apr 2002
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    Bet the voting would have been different prior...
    This is exactly why we are voting now, and not in the past.

    A major innovation has come about that has changed the performance ability of the car, which was not around when the rules originated.

    Hence, we vote to see if change is necessary.

  7. #7
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    Apr 2002
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    All the cars that I have been playing with are S.C. vin's so I guess that whatever comes from this will meen that I can get my dyno #'s posted... Boy did the mark ever get raised now.... Did someone say "Blowen big block"?????????? This could be a really good summer after all. Got to get going and get that new frame under that car......Rich
    Rich,

    Option #2 would have to win the poll for that to be possible.

    Also, George will have to be willing to change the rules based on this vote.

    This is only a small step in the right direction. It is possible that this may fail, and nothing may come of it, so don't get too excited just yet.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
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    Phildelphia, PA 19030
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    2,181

    Angry seperate lists

    just make the seperate up and vote

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Ajax, Canada
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    768
    Do you really think you are preserving the SC by using NOS on the dyno?
    With all do respect, that is a dumb question. Are you guys who rip your motors apart, use different blowers any different? No! Nitrous is a power adder. Peroid. Horsepower is horsepower. Why does it matter how you obtain the numbers?

    I don't think enough people care enough to make George change the rule. That's just my opinion though.

  10. #10
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    Aug 2002
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    Markham, Ontario, Canada
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    Don't forget that not everyone is honest when it comes to NOS. It is easily hidden from those who really know what they are looking for. If someone chooses to be sneaky about it, there is no way "us" to subject the car to inspection before accepting the numbers. Then there are those who have NOS installed but say they just didn't use it on the dyno. Just food for thought. The list will hold no value if it's too easy to submit false numbers and create an unfair playing field.
    Last edited by Turbo351; 06-13-2004 at 09:29 PM.

  11. #11
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    No! Nitrous is a power adder. Peroid. Horsepower is horsepower. Why does it matter how you obtain the numbers?
    Steve,

    I respect your position, however, if you are allowing nitrous, why are you restricting it to a roots-type blower then? Excluding whipples is excluding power adders. What about turbos as power adders, extra displacement and more cylinders? They all make more power also. Please inform me if I'm missing the point here.

    Don't forget that not everyone is honest when it comes to NOS. It is easily hidden from those who really know what they are looking for. If someone chooses to be sneaky about it, there is no way "us" to subject the car to inspection before accepting the numbers. Then there are those who have NOS installed but say they just didn't use it on the dyno. Just food for thought. The list will hold no value if it's too easy to submit false numbers and create an unfair playing field
    You are absolutely right, Wayne. All I can hope is that we are educated enough on what level of performance coincides with what modifications, and we can judge accurately what numbers are truly "skewed", or unexplainable without the use of nitrous.

    I personaly don't want to see the dyno turn into a game of "who has the guts to add more nitrous". Or, "my motor blew up on the dyno with a 250 shot, but it made 480 RWHP just before that, so add me to the list!". Part of having such a list is knowing what modifications it took to achieve what level of power. If you add NOS to the equation, how can you tell what is making the power, the combination of performance parts, or how big the nozzle was?

    That's the only reason I'm against NOS on the dyno, even though I do intend to run NOS in the future, both on the street and at the track. I will likely see what it does on the dyno just for fun, but I will hardly consider a NOS powered dyno run to be any achievement worth submitting to a ranked list, or worth bragging about.

    The TBU dyno list went the NOS route, and unfortunately (although I don't mean to critisize the TBU, since it serves a different purpose) when you read the list, you have no idea what Gary, Dave or Chris ran without NOS, or what the current power level is when not using NOS. For that reason, the list becomes a "I wonder how much NOS it took to get the HP", rather than, "I wonder what modifications he has". I just don't want to see the dyno list become a NOS competition, rather than a true representation of a person's current power level.

    At the track, using NOS is part of the racing environment. You are racing against the clock, or competiting with other racers. In that setting, I feel the use of NOS is more acceptable as a racing tool, because it depends when you turn it on, for how long, and during what gears that determines how successful you are. On the dyno, spraying until the chart peaks at a certain number seems kind of silly, unless you are just doing it out of curiousity. I guess what it all comes down to is, I look at the dyno list as a factual representation, rather than a competition. Since 1/4 miles racing combines skill, HP and overall set-up of the car, it is obviously more competitive in nature. The dyno numbers are more a documentation of people's results, that we happpen to rank in order from highest to lowest, which makes it easier to read, and a lot more fun and interesting.

    Again, this is only my opinion.

  12. #12
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    Comparing apples to apples, we don't know how much boost they are running either. They might be running 30 pounds and tons of timing on race fuel with alcohol/methanol or propane injection. That is no different than running NOS in my opinion. Horsepower is horsepower. There are lots of ways to squeeze out more power, it's just how far you are willing to take it.

    You are opening a huge can of worms here by saying we can judge the results by reported modifcations. Who is going to judge and make the final decision to reject the entry from the list? There is no way to do this without inspecting the car at the time of the dyno run. Someone can run a 30hp shot and you would never know it by looking at the dyno charts.

    I vote V6 SC block-anything goes. If you want to push the V6 to the edge and beyond, more power to ya! It's the big numbers that motivates people to keep these cars and keep pushing the envelope of performance.




    [QUOTE=Bill McNeil]Steve,

    All I can hope is that we are educated enough on what level of performance coincides with what modifications, and we can judge accurately what numbers are truly "skewed", or unexplainable without the use of nitrous.

    I personaly don't want to see the dyno turn into a game of "who has the guts to add more nitrous". Or, "my motor blew up on the dyno with a 250 shot, but it made 480 RWHP just before that, so add me to the list!". Part of having such a list is knowing what modifications it took to achieve what level of power. If you add NOS to the equation, how can you tell what is making the power, the combination of performance parts, or how big the nozzle was?

    [QUOTE]
    Last edited by Turbo351; 06-13-2004 at 11:37 PM.

  13. #13
    The reason I voted option #3:

    I feel once you remove the M90 it's not a SC. What makes a Thinderbird SC a SC and not a regular LX?

    Is it springs and ARC shocks? Most of the guys have went with lowering springs and better shocks already.

    Is it the Side Bolster seats with lumbar?
    Some of the fast guys have went with racing seats?

    Is it the ground effects and bumper covers?
    I have seen these on a lot of LXs.

    Is it the SC V6 3.8 engine?
    This is just one of the things we are discussing here.

    Is it the Eaton M90 SC?
    Again another sticking point.

    To me it's all these things wrapped into one with a R in the VIN.

    You have to have it all. Does having only the VIN make your car a SC? Would the new Mach 1 registry embrace you with open arms if you bought a salvaged 2003 Mach 1 and dropped in a Whipple powered 4.2 V6 that made 500 rwhp? Do you think they would let you add your name to the top of the list?


    If money wasn't an issue I would buy the whipple kit. For that matter, I would like to install a 03 Cobra motor. To me the SC would be the perfect car to have a full 03 Cobra drivetrain in. You have our comfort and style with that lovely drivetrain. Would this be a SC? Not to me, all it shows is what Ford could have done.

    It's not that I don't want this cool stufff. It's just that I wouldn't want my car on that list. I would rather have a seperate modified class to be listed under. To me it's too far from Stock in my opinion.

    How many of you guys want a 100% street legal tubbed SC with a 9" rear live axle running a Turbo on the top of the list?


    Jerry

  14. #14
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    Location
    Philadelphia
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    when you read the list, you have no idea what Gary, Dave or Chris ran without NOS, or what the current power level is when not using N
    I dont have NASA by my name biatch.

    They might be running 30 pounds and tons of timing on race fuel with alcohol/methanol or propane injection. That is no different than running NOS in my opinion. Horsepower is horsepower. There are lots of ways to squeeze out more power, it's just how far you are willing to take it.
    Wayne, I see your point, but you still have a limit of what you can go to with the items you listed. With Nitrous there is no limit, just pop a bigger pill. I would think one is nuts just pumping nitrous to get big number on the dyno, but what do I know.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill McNeil
    Steve,

    I respect your position, however, if you are allowing nitrous, why are you restricting it to a roots-type blower then? Excluding whipples is excluding power adders. What about turbos as power adders, extra displacement and more cylinders? They all make more power also. Please inform me if I'm missing the point here.
    A SC without a roots blower is no longer a SC IMO.

    Once you remove the blower and/or motor, the car is no longer a SC and shouldn't be classifed as one.

    Sure, some people play with their motors a lot, but I think as long as you stay with the original 3.8 block and roots type blower, then the car still maintains the original SC look.

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