347 install nightmare

David Neibert

SCCoA Admin
Dave Dalke and I (mostly Dave) have been fighting this 347 turbo motor install for the past 4 days (started Wednesday AM) and we have had nothing but trouble. Even working on the car from 8:30 AM to well past Midnight we wern't going to have the engine in and running by the time Dave was supposed to go back home Friday evening. I'm gratefull that he agreed to change his flight and stay until this morning (Sunday).

Most of the fitment problems were related to the Dart block and the Canton oil pan from hell, that was required because of the 4 bolt main caps on the block. The K-member had to be severly modded, motor mounts reworked, power steering lines and cooler relocated, raised engine (1") and trans (3/4") mounting positions for oil pan clearance, and dozens of other little things.

Anyhow we finally reached the point of firing it up last night and it sounded great (exhaust manifolds only) but withing a few minutes of running it started making a knocking sound and generally running like a$$. After checking everything we did several times and not finding anything wrong, we took it for a drive last night 2:00 AM and again this morning. It's got very low vacuum and feels like it's only running on 6 or 7 cylinders. Four of the freeze plugs are also leaking slightly. It really pisses me off, because we took every precaution (including priming the oil pump) to insure that nothing would go wrong.

Next step is a compression test to locate the problem cylinder/s and I'm crossing my fingers that the motor doesn't have to come out again. I think it's only a seized up rocker, that's holding a valve open. I should have it firgured out in the next day or two.

BTW, Dave Dalke did excellent work on this project (Thanks again Dave) and if he hadn't been here helping me, I would have freaked out on the second day when I saw how much of the K-member needed to be removed. Here are a few pictures.
The old motor.

347oldmotor.jpg


Dual in-tank pumps.

dualpumps.jpg


Fuel lines.

fuellines.jpg


More fuel lines.

fuelhoses.jpg


Fuel pressure regulator ready to mount.

regulator.jpg



K-member mods required to clear oil pan. It was still necessary to raise the engine install height by 1" to clear the top of the K-member.

kmembercut.jpg



kmemberwelded.jpg



Engine and trans ready to install. BTW, We had to test fit the motor at least 4 other times before getting this far.


motor&trans.jpg



And how it looks installed. And yes even with the motor raised and inch it still fits under the stock hood.


347newmotor.jpg


David
 
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Looks good David. How is the firewall to engine clearance now that the engine is sitting 1" higher?

-Rod
 
Wow!

That was some really good fabrication on the K-Member. Tom Berry and his crew at HP will definately be happy to pump in some adrenaline on that beast! Was the engine set up with low compression for the MIGHTY TURBO!? :confused:
 
Rod,

Firewall clerance is still good, but because of having to clear the K-member with the rear sump of the deep oil pan, we had to remove the wiper motor assembly to have enough room to install the engine and trans as an assembly.

Frank,

Compression is 9.3:1, which is nearly a full point higher than I wanted but still low enough to make big power on pump gas and insane power on race gas.

David

PS I don't know why the motor and trans didn't show in the original post, but here it is.
 

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wish i can pop in my LS6 engine in my garage on my T BIRD :( and its six speed transmission. But its going into my GRAND PRIX :D
 
david, are you keeping the mechanical fan or going electric?

As part of the turbo kit it gets a 94-95 5.0 Mustang electric fan.

Is that amodified stock pickup or did Dave #2 make something special for ya?

Damon, it's sorta special because it appears to be made of stainless steel and had a flat spot large enough to locate the bulkhead fitting that connects to the second pump. Most of them have a depression stamped in that area and would require welding a tube on. The pump and sender mounting brackets (that you can't see because I forgot to take a pic) were custom made by Dave.

David
 
Welcome to the cut the K Member club. :) I have felt your pain. You will be reaping the benifits of all those head acks soon. Good luck
 
Tested the compression and all cylinders had 155-160 psi and I found the knocking noise....there was an oversized sheet metal screw (not like the other 5) that holds the rocker cover baffle plate, hitting against the rocker. The sheet metal baffle plate made it sound worse than it really was.

I'm guessing someone lost the correct low profile pan head screw and just cross threaded this sheet metal screw in the hole (wasn't even all the way screwed in) instead of getting the correct hardware. Makes me wonder about the rest of the motor.

Since I had it all apart I went ahead and pulled all the rockers off the drivers side to check for proper pushrod and roller tip geometery. Everything looked fine so I just reset them with the correct pre-load and bolted it back together.

I'll be sending the engine builder (CHP) some pics of their screw up tonight. Don't really expect much help from them, because when I called yesterday the guy I spoke with said I was supposed to readjust all the rockers after running the car and even suggested retorquing all the head studs.

I told him it was a hyd roller cam and the head gaskets are Cometic MLS with 1/2" studs and neither should require reajusting or torqueing after the first heat cycle. His response was "well okay but that's what I do on my mustang with copper head gaskets and a paxton blower". He also suggested that I use stock Ford rocker cover gaskets (steel covered in rubber) instead of the 5/16" cork gaskets used on my engine. So I stopped by the Ford dealer and bought a pair ($60) and now that I see how close the rocker to baffle clearance is I know I won't be able to use them because they are only about 1/8" thick.

Anyhow...I just need to finish a few more things and it will be ready for a baseline dyno pull to see where the A/F ratio is, so I can get a chip. I'll be suprised if it makes 200 rwhp in it's current configuration.

David

PS: I need a much bigger radiator.
 
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David Neibert said:
Tested the compression and all cylinders had 155-160 psi and I found the knocking noise....there was an oversized sheet metal screw (not like the other 5) that holds the rocker cover baffle plate, hitting against the rocker. The sheet metal baffle plate made it sound worse than it really was.

I'm guessing someone lost the correct low profile pan head screw and just cross threaded this sheet metal screw in the hole (wasn't even all the way screwed in) instead of getting the correct hardware. Makes me wonder about the rest of the motor.

Since I had it all apart I went ahead and pulled all the rockers off the drivers side to check for proper pushrod and roller tip geometery. Everything looked fine so I just reset them with the correct pre-load and bolted it back together.

I'll be sending the engine builder (CHP) some pics of their screw up tonight. Don't really expect much help from them, because when I called yesterday the guy I spoke with said I was supposed to readjust all the rockers after running the car and even suggested retorquing all the head studs.

I told him it was a hyd roller cam and the head gaskets are Cometic MLS with 1/2" studs and neither should require reajusting or torqueing after the first heat cycle. His response was "well okay but that's what I do on my mustang with copper head gaskets and a paxton blower". He also suggested that I use stock Ford rocker cover gaskets (steel covered in rubber) instead of the 5/16" cork gaskets used on my engine. So I stopped by the Ford dealer and bought a pair ($60) and now that I see how close the rocker to baffle clearance is I know I won't be able to use them because they are only about 1/8" thick.

Anyhow...I just need to finish a few more things and it will be ready for a baseline dyno pull to see where the A/F ratio is, so I can get a chip. I'll be suprised if it makes 200 rwhp in it's current configuration.

David

PS: I need a much bigger radiator.


Great to hear!
By the way the guy you talked to on the phone gets paid exactly for what he did, fustrate the hell out of you until you quite calling. That is tech support 101. I would continue to beat on them until you find someone that cares.

Good Luck hope it runs good now.

gary
 
David Neibert said:
Fuel pressure regulator ready to mount.

regulator.jpg


David, a minor point ... would it maybe not be better to have the smooth radius 90-degree hose ends going to the regulator, rather than the straight ends with the sharp pipe-to-flare adapters? For better fuel flow ... :confused:

Hopefully you don't run into any more trouble getting this beast going.

cheers,
Ed N.
 
Good Luck hope it runs good now.

No it still runs like crap, only now it's a little quieter....my 4.6 Explorer could probably beat it. I didn't really expect much power because of the intake and exhaust that's on the car now. The loose converter and stock gears only make it feel worse. Basicially the intake doesn't like low rpms naturally aspirated and the exhaust can't flow enough to reach higher rpms. Not being tuned and running hot only makes it worse.

I'm sure it will be fine, once I get a few things straightened out. The new Griffin radiator should arrive late next week and by then I will have also located a Mark VIII fan to replace this crappy belt driven thing I've got on there now. I learned my lesson about the cooling system on my 91 SC, and I'm going straight for the biggest radiator and fan I can bolt on.


fast Ed N said:
David, a minor point ... would it maybe not be better to have the smooth radius 90-degree hose ends going to the regulator, rather than the straight ends with the sharp pipe-to-flare adapters? For better fuel flow ... :confused:

Hopefully you don't run into any more trouble getting this beast going.

cheers,
Ed N.

Ed,

It would be better, but that would require the fittings for the two hoses coming off the fuel rails which had 90 and 45 degree ends to be clocked correctly with the ends attaching to the regulator, because the fittings don't swivel and the hose won't twist.

And like Dave said, it doesn't really matter because they are just the return hoses. The two on the sides are from the rails and the one on the bottom goes all the way back to the tank.

The hard part of this project is done, and I don't really expect many more problems until after the turbo is installed.

David
 
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Hmmmmm.....
Dave, i'm glad you mentioned the Griffin because that is one big things I forgot to add into next month's budget. What are they running these days, about $700.00 or more? :confused:
 
Frank,

I ordered mine direct from Griffin and saved nearly $100 compared to Summitt, and even better it will be built and shipped in 2 days. For a 5.0 T-bird 2 core w/1.25" tubes (rated to 600 HP) my cost was $463.25 plus shipping.

No it still runs like crap, only now it's a little quieter....my 4.6 Explorer could probably beat it. I didn't really expect much power because of the intake and exhaust that's on the car now. The loose converter and stock gears only make it feel worse. Basicially the intake doesn't like low rpms naturally aspirated and the exhaust can't flow enough to reach higher rpms. Not being tuned and running hot only makes it worse.

Car update: Adjusting the valves must have done something, because it had much more power when I took it for a drive this evening than it had two days ago. I guess I'll have to readjust the other side now. It keeps getting a little better each day. At this rate I'll be beating Caviliers by the weekend :rolleyes:

David
 
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Thanks David.

That is really great news for me. I was dreading the costs of that radiator. Now at least it seems as though I will aquire it for a reasonable cost. :)
 
I figured out why the engine was running like crap.....the distributor was installed 180 degrees out and instead of re-stabbing the distributor to the correct position, we just clocked the plug wires 180 degrees on the distributor cap. I know it was a dumb shortcut, but we were past midnight on our 4th long day of working on the car. It started, the tach worked, the timing light worked so we didn't think much more about it.

What we didn't realise is that the injector firing sequence is based on the #1 plug position on the distributor cap. So since we clocked the wires on the cap, the injectors were squirting 180 degrees out of phase with the ignition (when the intake valve was closed). I'm suprised it even ran.

It idles much smoother, runs cooler and can actually spin the tires now :D

David
 
and it don't look bad either....

I got to say it does look good Dave. Thanks again for helping me on sunday when I was down... Now get that tubro on there so we can really spin those tires.... Gonig outside now to get my new toy out of the box and take it for a spin.. Thanks again, and the same to Kurt K. see you guys soon....Rich
 
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