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Thread: Swaping in a V8 project thread.

  1. #1
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    Swaping in a V8 project thread.

    Heres the new thread so we dont hijack anyone elses thread anymore.

    My project: I am starting out with a 1990 35th Anny that I am going to pick up in december. It has blown HG so that makes it a prime subject for this type of swap. This project is under somewhat of a budget.

    My goals: I want to build a 347ci stroker motor and put it in the car. I will be gutting it completely leaving only the factory dash but gutted as well. I will be using this car mainly for autocross with maybe some open track events too. I am not building this car for any specific class in open track. I will probably just mess around with local clubs that go open tracking, but autocross is going to be its main purpose.

    Hardware: I have not desided on what brands of internals to use (I was hoping you guys can help with this) or heads yet. I was thinking of using Ford GT40 aluminum heads as they are cheap and provide good increase in power teamed with a Trick Flow upper and lower intack. A E303 or F303 cam would be my choise as of now but could change. I dont know what kind of reasonable RPM range I could safely run the motor too. I know it all depends on internals, valve train, how well the head and intake breath etc. Is 6500 RPM realistic? I would like to get a Canton 7qrt oil pan so I dont get any oil starvation. A AJE tubular kmember will be employed to save weight and increase engine acsesability from underneith the car. Fuel injection is a must. I will be using a manual tranny. Wether it be a M5R2 or that of a Tremec 3550, 3650 or even a T-56. Bigger brakes and suspenssion mods will also acomidate this car.

    Ok now what are the things I will need for this swap? Will the motor mounts on the V6 work with the V8? You guys feel free to post at will with everything I will need. I appreciate all the info and help! Am I on the right path, have I over looked something along the way, any suggestions? I will post my progress along the way with pics too.

    Shane

  2. #2
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    Shane is this the one off Ebay?? I am just curious. I hope the project goes well for ya man... Good luck

    Jay

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThunderCoupe94
    Shane is this the one off Ebay?? I am just curious. I hope the project goes well for ya man... Good luck

    Jay
    Jay it is not the one off ebay. This one is in much better shape but is all black so thats something else I have to do to it.

    Shane

  4. #4
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    A long runner intake is going to peak HP at about 5500rpm. Perhaps one of the new ones like the BBK will allow 6500rpm but most won't do it. The bottom end is fine for 6500rpm.Those Ford cams are not the best thing, and the heads are not even worth the money. Doing it on a budget I'd look at the complete Holley systemax system. It's relatively inexpensive and will make an easy 350rwhp. With the Ford stuff you probably won't break 300rwhp.

    If you start with a donor Tbird V8 you will be able to bolt everything pretty much straight in. V6 motor mounts won't work at all. Really you should be making solid mounts for it anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller View Post
    Ya thats why i tape mine down. People think its bc i dont have a moonroof seal (which is true) but its really to keep my roof from ripping off .
    Email me here.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by XR7 Dave
    A long runner intake is going to peak HP at about 5500rpm. Perhaps one of the new ones like the BBK will allow 6500rpm but most won't do it. The bottom end is fine for 6500rpm.Those Ford cams are not the best thing, and the heads are not even worth the money. Doing it on a budget I'd look at the complete Holley systemax system. It's relatively inexpensive and will make an easy 350rwhp. With the Ford stuff you probably won't break 300rwhp.

    If you start with a donor Tbird V8 you will be able to bolt everything pretty much straight in. V6 motor mounts won't work at all. Really you should be making solid mounts for it anyway.
    What is different about the motor mounts Dave? I figured solid was the way to go, but wasn't sure how the two mounts where different. One problem I am going to run into is that I have no room for a V8 tbird parts car laying around. So I guess if you know of any that are close to me I could drive t pick the stuff up. Maybe you'll have a parts car I can pillage when the time is right.

    The Trick Flow Track Heat upper and lower intake manifold is rated at 1,500 to 6,500 RPM and that is the intake I was thinking of using. What cam is going to be my best choise for this application?

    This is how I want everything to come togather. I am planning on buying the car this december. Then I am going to set it aside so I can fix the things that are wrong with my current 35th. While I am fixing my 35th I will be buisy doing the stripping of the project 35th. Once everything is fixed on my current car thats when the transformation will start to take place.

    Does this sound like a good plan?

    Shane

  6. #6
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    Well, my eldest brother is building a 327(Ford) stroker for his 92 LX. He bought a regular ol' 302 block from Jegs and a stroker kit from D.S.S. Everything is balanced and blueprinted. He also chose the AFR 185 heads. I agree with Dave, I wouldn't buy those GT40 heads. Waste O' money. You should probably get a main support girdle since the 302's are only 2 bolt. 6,500 RPM's, no problem. I would go with the Edelbrock performer RPM intake. Nice. Some 30lb. SC injectors would work we were thinking. Anyway, with this combo you are at about 3 grand, approx.
    Another option would be to get a 89-92 5.0 setup from a Mustang and turbocharge it. The 89 to 92's have forged internals so they can handle some boost. You could get a kit from HP. You could probably do that for less than 5 grand.
    Last edited by Darkside; 10-28-2004 at 12:36 AM.

  7. #7
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    Does this sound like a good idea guys? I have been trying to think of what kind of foundation to start start my motor/race car project out right. Should I buy a new block for per say Jegs or any of the performace shops or should I find a motor out of a wrecked 87-95 mustang, tear it down and itstall the stroker kit in it?

    Where should I buy the stroker kit at? I would like all forged internals. I have been looking a 3 kits lately. One is from ProPower. Its the Racing stroker kit and retails for $1299.00. It comes with a new forged 4340 steel nitrided crank, new forged 4340 steel H beem rods, new forged 2618 power adder pistons, high performance file-to-fit plasma moly rings, and king high performance rod and main bearing.

    The other two kits both come from D.S.S. They are the Pro piston kit($939.95), and the Pro lite piston kit($1095.95). Both kits come with forged rods with ARP bolts, moly rings, metal main and rod bearings, stroker crank, and either pro pistons(forged) or pro lite pistons(forged). I would think that the crank is forged as well.

    What kits sounds like the better one? I know that there are other kits out there, so if there is a better one(keep in mind this is under somewhat of a budget) out there please let me know.

    I'll have more questions later.

    Shane

  8. #8
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    When you say Autocross... what exactly do you mean? I think of Autocross as dodging cones in a parking lot at no more than 30 mph.

    That engine swap will put you into a class with fully modified vehicles, that to be competitive in, you would need to do even more mods. The Tbird is a heavy car.

    Or do you mean more like high speed oval or road courses?

  9. #9
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    Shane,

    Given your target power level I think you will be fine using a stock block. Most of the mustang turbo guys agree the stock block is good for about 500 HP.

    If your interested I've got a good Thunderbird specific 5.0 HO motor sitting in my garage that's for sale for $200. It's from a 91 LX and has the correct, oil pan, timing cover, intake manifold and balancer for use in the MN12. It includes a stock TB, fuel rail and injectors. Also included is the stock MN12 radiator, fan and shroud.

    I have removed the motor mounts, sensors, tubular exhaust manifolds and all the accesories for use on my turbo motor. This motor was in the car for about 6 months while the race engine was being built. It ran great and doesn't leak a drop of oil. It would make a good platform for building your stroker and will save you a bunch of money compared to buying all the parts to build the engine from scratch.

    If you want it you have to pick it up in St. Louis, because it too much hassel to ship by motor freight.

    David

    PS: I will also supply the tubular exhaust manifolds after my turbo system is installed.
    1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
    2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat...............707HP/650TQ

    My Garage

  10. #10
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    Autocross is typically (but not always) limited to about 80mph or less depending on the venue. HP is not the biggest deal with AX, so personally I don't see any reason to ditch the V6 other than if you just don't like it. The Mansier Motorsports car keeps up with cars that have 100hp more all the time on the open road course. Down low the SC has way more torque than any small block V8 so in the AX situation it would be ideal. I dont' see the sense in putting a $5000-9000 motor in a car that you AX for fun. I mean seriously, I don't have that in my motor and it makes a reliable 345rwhp and 400ftlbs torque (without the AR). I absolutely gaurantee you that with a light chassis car there is no way hell you'll put that much power to the ground.

    But hey, what do I know?

    .
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller View Post
    Ya thats why i tape mine down. People think its bc i dont have a moonroof seal (which is true) but its really to keep my roof from ripping off .
    Email me here.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike8675309
    When you say Autocross... what exactly do you mean? I think of Autocross as dodging cones in a parking lot at no more than 30 mph.

    That engine swap will put you into a class with fully modified vehicles, that to be competitive in, you would need to do even more mods. The Tbird is a heavy car.

    Or do you mean more like high speed oval or road courses?
    Autocross = dodging cones. That what I will be doing the most of. Autocross is much faster than 30MPH. I usually run up to 5000 RPM or just above that in 2nd gear.

    I dont know if I mentioned it in my first post, but I am totally stripping this car to the max. A cage is going in, and I am going to remove as much metal as possible to reduce weight. Maybe lexan windows, fiberglass hood, you get the idea. There will be some track events with some local clubs that I will do with it, but it will be mostly used as an autocross car.

    Shane

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Neibert
    Shane,

    Given your target power level I think you will be fine using a stock block. Most of the mustang turbo guys agree the stock block is good for about 500 HP.

    If your interested I've got a good Thunderbird specific 5.0 HO motor sitting in my garage that's for sale for $200. It's from a 91 LX and has the correct, oil pan, timing cover, intake manifold and balancer for use in the MN12. It includes a stock TB, fuel rail and injectors. Also included is the stock MN12 radiator, fan and shroud.

    I have removed the motor mounts, sensors, tubular exhaust manifolds and all the accesories for use on my turbo motor. This motor was in the car for about 6 months while the race engine was being built. It ran great and doesn't leak a drop of oil. It would make a good platform for building your stroker and will save you a bunch of money compared to buying all the parts to build the engine from scratch.

    If you want it you have to pick it up in St. Louis, because it too much hassel to ship by motor freight.

    David

    PS: I will also supply the tubular exhaust manifolds after my turbo system is installed.
    David,

    I would like to take that motor off your hands. I am not sure when as of now I can come and get it. Maybe some time during christmas break or sometime just after. Could you hang on to it until then? It would be a great help and I would appreciative it very much.

    Quote Originally Posted by XR7 Dave
    Autocross is typically (but not always) limited to about 80mph or less depending on the venue. HP is not the biggest deal with AX, so personally I don't see any reason to ditch the V6 other than if you just don't like it. The Mansier Motorsports car keeps up with cars that have 100hp more all the time on the open road course. Down low the SC has way more torque than any small block V8 so in the AX situation it would be ideal. I dont' see the sense in putting a $5000-9000 motor in a car that you AX for fun. I mean seriously, I don't have that in my motor and it makes a reliable 345rwhp and 400ftlbs torque (without the AR). I absolutely gaurantee you that with a light chassis car there is no way hell you'll put that much power to the ground.

    But hey, what do I know?

    .
    Dave,

    I like the V6 dont get me wrong. I just want a nice V8 in a SC. I feel it will complete the car. Besides, I'll still be autocrossing my current 35th and its still V6 powerd. I am not going to spend $5000-9000 on the motor. I am shooting for under $4000 if i can. Its just that the V6 can be very expensive to build up compared to the V8.

    Shane

  13. #13
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    Could you hang on to it until then?
    Yes...I will.

    David
    1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
    2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat...............707HP/650TQ

    My Garage

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Neibert
    Yes...I will.

    David
    Sweet! Thanks David. I'll let you know when I can come and get it.

    Shane

  15. #15
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    Some more questions.

    One thing I am going to have on this car and my current 35th is a Mark VIII rear IRS. There are two things I want to know. One, what can I do about the spring fitment issue? Two, is there an advantage to using the MarK VIII rear axles? I have a set of axles out in Califoria and need to know soon before they get tossed in the trash.

    What should I do about motor mounts? Would the mounts and brakets that come off the project car work or is there specific brackets and mounts that I will need?

    Engine wiring/computer:

    If I get a engine wiring harness form Summit made by Ford Racing for a 5.0 and a mustang computer to go with it will it work? Or should I get the wiring from a 5.0 Tbird? This may be a stupid question but I felt like asking.

    More questions to come as time and with progress of this build up.

    Shane

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