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Thread: [n00b question] AR Kit

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Pine Island, Fl
    Posts
    253

    [n00b question] AR Kit

    What is an AR Kit?

    I'll be posting several seemly stupid questions, because I know NOTHING about cars... but I'm here to learn...

    Chad

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Orem, UT
    Posts
    5,902
    An auto rotor supercharger (aka whipple) kit for our cars. On a stock engine w/ only exhaust and intercooler upgrade it made almost 300 hp at the wheels but was running lean due to needing larger fuel injectors and a bigger fuel pump. As I see it, this is going to be a whole new world of SC performance once many of the already high horsepower guys upgrade to this supercharger. The stock M90 supercharger, no matter how well you port it, overdrive it (spin it faster) or intercool it, can only be described as a heat pump at best. Yes its an improvement over a naturally aspirated engine, but its not a very efficient design and it generates tons of heat from compressing the air. The auto-rotor style superchargers are twin screw design rather than a 3 lobe design that our stock superchargers have. The result is more boost, more efficiency, and less heat. Even at 10 psi with the autorotor vs 10 psi with the eaton m90 the horsepower will be much higher with the auto rotor due to the less heat its creating in the intake charge. From what I've seen the M90 is really pointless after about 14 psi. Now the autorotor can produce around 18 psi if not slightly more depending on how you have it pullied and it doesn't really lose efficiency at those higher boost levels. Basically if you spin an M90 at 14 psi you can achieve the same results w/ the auto rotor spinning at say 8 psi. So there is a lot of room to turn up the boost once you have the fuel and exhaust upgrades to support it.

    It amazes me that we have seen a few SC's w/ M90 reach 390-406 rwhp and that is with severly ported blowers and very large intercoolers. Just think if they were to run the auto rotor on those motors. I'm seeing 500 rwhp as a fairly simple mark w/ heads, cam, exhaust, fuel system, and intake mods. So as you can see the SVT Cobra and Lightning aren't the only forced induction Fords than will be laying down impressive performance. I only wish that I could afford to purchase one right now. I hope that Dave continues to be able to supply these kits in the next couple of years so that I don't miss out on the opportunity to have a high powered SC in my collection. I hope these kits aren't a limited time only deal. I'm not sure how many people have purchased the kit yet, I only know of a few personally, but I think we will see some nice dyno numbers at Carlisle and the SC Shootout. Two events which I am going to try my hardest not to miss.

    And from what I understand the kit bolts right on and can be installed in an afternoon if you are handy with tools or know somoene who is. I can have the supercharger off my SC in about 30 minutes so I think this kit is definately something I could install in my garage on a saturday afternoon.
    Scott Long
    1992 SC 5-speed
    Black on black leather, lowered, 18x9 Chrome Saleens...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Pine Island, Fl
    Posts
    253
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Long
    An auto rotor supercharger (aka whipple) kit for our cars. On a stock engine w/ only exhaust and intercooler upgrade it made almost 300 hp at the wheels but was running lean due to needing larger fuel injectors and a bigger fuel pump. As I see it, this is going to be a whole new world of SC performance once many of the already high horsepower guys upgrade to this supercharger. The stock M90 supercharger, no matter how well you port it, overdrive it (spin it faster) or intercool it, can only be described as a heat pump at best. Yes its an improvement over a naturally aspirated engine, but its not a very efficient design and it generates tons of heat from compressing the air. The auto-rotor style superchargers are twin screw design rather than a 3 lobe design that our stock superchargers have. The result is more boost, more efficiency, and less heat. Even at 10 psi with the autorotor vs 10 psi with the eaton m90 the horsepower will be much higher with the auto rotor due to the less heat its creating in the intake charge. From what I've seen the M90 is really pointless after about 14 psi. Now the autorotor can produce around 18 psi if not slightly more depending on how you have it pullied and it doesn't really lose efficiency at those higher boost levels. Basically if you spin an M90 at 14 psi you can achieve the same results w/ the auto rotor spinning at say 8 psi. So there is a lot of room to turn up the boost once you have the fuel and exhaust upgrades to support it.

    It amazes me that we have seen a few SC's w/ M90 reach 390-406 rwhp and that is with severly ported blowers and very large intercoolers. Just think if they were to run the auto rotor on those motors. I'm seeing 500 rwhp as a fairly simple mark w/ heads, cam, exhaust, fuel system, and intake mods. So as you can see the SVT Cobra and Lightning aren't the only forced induction Fords than will be laying down impressive performance. I only wish that I could afford to purchase one right now. I hope that Dave continues to be able to supply these kits in the next couple of years so that I don't miss out on the opportunity to have a high powered SC in my collection. I hope these kits aren't a limited time only deal. I'm not sure how many people have purchased the kit yet, I only know of a few personally, but I think we will see some nice dyno numbers at Carlisle and the SC Shootout. Two events which I am going to try my hardest not to miss.

    And from what I understand the kit bolts right on and can be installed in an afternoon if you are handy with tools or know somoene who is. I can have the supercharger off my SC in about 30 minutes so I think this kit is definately something I could install in my garage on a saturday afternoon.

    Awesome, Thanks

    btw, what's the cost on one of these kits?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Indy
    Posts
    5,622
    I think its around $3000 for everything, but if you get just the blower, inlet plenum and bypass valve, its like $2200.
    1994 SC
    4.5L Twin Turbo SVO
    Project GTFD

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Pine Island, Fl
    Posts
    253
    Quote Originally Posted by CMac89
    I think its around $3000 for everything, but if you get just the blower, inlet plenum and bypass valve, its like $2200.

    ...wow.... maybe I'll go the turbo charging route instead of a better supercharger.. might be just a little bit cheaper.. what do you think?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Indy
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    5,622
    No turbocharging would be just as much, especially if you buy it in a kit. I think the kit is going to be 5k. If you did all of the fabrication yourself it would cost just as much because you still have to get all of the fuel upgrades and tune it.
    1994 SC
    4.5L Twin Turbo SVO
    Project GTFD

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Pine Island, Fl
    Posts
    253
    Quote Originally Posted by CMac89
    No turbocharging would be just as much, especially if you buy it in a kit. I think the kit is going to be 5k. If you did all of the fabrication yourself it would cost just as much because you still have to get all of the fuel upgrades and tune it.

    :onders:: Can I put in a jet engine in the trunk instead? -- lol

    Well, scratch those ideas for awhile, I'll just stick with cheaper mods. ...much cheaper...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Queens, NYC
    Posts
    1,058
    Quote Originally Posted by Lvcien
    :onders:: Can I put in a jet engine in the trunk instead? -- lol

    Well, scratch those ideas for awhile, I'll just stick with cheaper mods. ...much cheaper...

    You know what they say.. You gotta spend the cash to go fast!

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    St. Petersburg, Florida
    Posts
    1,177
    if you want to see the autorotor in person you may wanna go to bradenton next thursday...Jake should be there with his car

  10. #10
    Do we actualy know what the output air temps are on a AR blower? Could someone direct me to those please?

    As for Cmac89's comment about a turbo setup costing 5 grand even if you do your own fabbing, are you serious? How much do you think a new turbo sells for?
    What about a fuel pump? Bigger injectors? The rest of it you can do yourself, if you know how. Now granted not everyone has those skills but you said "even if you did the fab work yourself it would cost 5 grand"
    Please do tell how you arrived at that conclusion.
    Last edited by MIKE 38sc; 02-12-2005 at 01:25 AM.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    TX.
    Posts
    222
    Pay no attention to the 60's era flooring... The AR "kit" attached to a Randy Baker ported intake.






  12. #12
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    Queens, NYC
    Posts
    1,058
    Quote Originally Posted by MIKE 38sc
    As for Cmac89's comment about a turbo setup costing 5 grand even if you do your own fabbing, are you serious? How much do you think a new turbo sells for?
    What about a fuel pump? Bigger injectors? The rest of it you can do yourself, if you know how. Now granted not everyone has those skills but you said "even if you did the fab work yourself it would cost 5 grand"
    Please do tell how you arrived at that conclusion.

    I dont know.. Building a good turbo setup begins to get pricey even if you fab it yourself.. What about the intercooling setup? A decent turbo will run $1k minimum.. Manifolds? Or do you plan to use the junk stockers Intake manifold? There are a lot of little things that will nickle and dime you till one day you add up the reciepts and you went well past the $5k mark.. Well unless you use used parts..

  13. #13
    MarksM thats a cute little blower, just like mine but smaller.
    My intake is different too.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by KwikGSeX
    I dont know.. Building a good turbo setup begins to get pricey even if you fab it yourself.. What about the intercooling setup? A decent turbo will run $1k minimum.. Manifolds? Or do you plan to use the junk stockers Intake manifold? There are a lot of little things that will nickle and dime you till one day you add up the reciepts and you went well past the $5k mark.. Well unless you use used parts..
    I must have a better source for turbo's or something. I can buy some very nice units for under a grand all week long. Good intercooler cores cost more than the turbo, true. The public is getting raped over intercoolers and for the life of me I cannot figure out why. There no more complicated or harder to make than radiator cores. Manifold or stockers? Heavens no.....I build all of that stuff myself. I build my own intake manifolds as well, no sweat just alittle time and work...well maybe a little bit of sweat, it does get warm in the summer under the hood.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Covington, WA
    Posts
    491
    God I love the pics of that AR setup!

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