How much nitrous before forged pistons...

sizemoremk

Registered User
Hey guys, I was wondering about this piston thing, and have beed reading through the forged vs hyper posts.

I keep seeing hyper is fine under 400 HP, but I also keep seeing references to nitrous requiring the forged pistons.

my question is how much nitrous is going to require forged pistons?

My reason for the nitrous is kinda a susbsitute for the FMIC, that is I believe a small shot of N20, about 75 HP at present, will kinda make up for the cooler charge of a FMIC, and give a little extra HP.

I am not interested in a FMIC, but will be going to a double IC, I got t keep the stock look. I don't know why... I just do...

So will a 75-100 shot be too much for stock type hyper pistons?

Thanks guys!
 
sizemoremk said:
Hey guys, I was wondering about this piston thing, and have beed reading through the forged vs hyper posts.

I keep seeing hyper is fine under 400 HP, but I also keep seeing references to nitrous requiring the forged pistons.

my question is how much nitrous is going to require forged pistons?

My reason for the nitrous is kinda a susbsitute for the FMIC, that is I believe a small shot of N20, about 75 HP at present, will kinda make up for the cooler charge of a FMIC, and give a little extra HP.

I am not interested in a FMIC, but will be going to a double IC, I got t keep the stock look. I don't know why... I just do...

So will a 75-100 shot be too much for stock type hyper pistons?

Thanks guys!


60 HP did this notice the weak link was a Rod
 

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If you have a decent fuel pump, you can safely run a 60-75 HP shot on a stock bottom end. Even with that small amount, I would strongly suggest getting the car on a dyno to make sure the A/F ratio is okay when spraying.

David
 
Damn!

What are the specifics of your setup?

Did you do any tuning, where did you plumb? Wet or dry? NOS,ZEX, NX????

How big is your fuel pump,. etc etc.

How high were you revving when you did it????

I've been through a 10lb bottle I got from a friend. and my 10lb bottle... not all at once though :D

Seems to me something else would be wrong here. Was anything modded on the engine, custom heads, pistons, etc???

Detonation would have broke a piston, not a rod correct?

It does make me wonder....

I felt totally safe with the 75 shot, never heard no pinging or nothing, but that may have been because I was lined up next to a 16 year old girl driving what was prolly a 500+ HP Camaro :eek: .... I couldn't hear Jack Schmitt ...

I never felt, heard, or smelt anything funny when "testing" it on the highway either ;)

I was however, unimpressed with the reults of the N20 in the seat of the pants meter. I was told that most people are disappointed unless they have a modded engine or bigger heads cam, etc. In fact, the N20 times were within prolly half second of the non-N2O. (on the 1/8 mile track, all we have here) And it being my first time running a car in 10 years, I'm sure I had a little to do with the slow times. Though I'm not sure my high school 4 cylinder turbo Stang with the turbo removed would really count as drag racing experience :eek:

I must also admit I don't have a bottle heater yet, but I spec' it will be awhile before I run the Nozzzz :p on my new engine so it will wait....

As for a small shot, I guess if you already have big heads/CAM, etc adding a small shot would be different than adding a small shot to a unmodded engine....

Maybe I should retire the N20? or stick with a 50 HP shot for the cooling effect. I've been wanting to monitor the ACT temps and see what it reads when hitting the nitrous, guess I'll have to see what they are with and without....

Thanks for the input!
 
David Neibert said:
If you have a decent fuel pump, you can safely run a 60-75 HP shot on a stock bottom end. Even with that small amount, I would strongly suggest getting the car on a dyno to make sure the A/F ratio is okay when spraying.

David
Let me add stock NEW bottom end. As far as mods check my signature that happoned because of 120,000 miles + NOS. The system is a dry setup with the sprayer taped in before the last turndown I got 4 bottels through the motor before that happond on the highway at about 4500rpm no warning just bang. Ruened the crank and block.
 
I have a Zex dry kit on my car. I have pretty much all the bolt ones except for UD pullies, my fuel system includes 42#ers and a 255lph pump. I have had 3 bottles through it and no problem at all. Knocked .5 of my quarter with a 55 shot and a very very rich a/f. Cant wait to spray it with the new heads and cam :D
 
Hey Bob, how much nitrous is running in the "other" SC? I remember we met at David's house last spring. You were telling me how you blew up your SC racing on the highway with the nitrous. Did you ever get the gear vendors overdrive working right now? Had it to the track since that addition? Do you still have the white SC? Haven't heard anything about it since last spring. I just keep thinking what it'd do with a whipple on it.
 
Also wouldn't a wet kit be safer? Since you can monitor the fuel being added. I'd also dyno tune it. I'd think you could run 125 hp from a wet kit on a dyno tuned stock bottom end. I'm just kind of scared to do it on mine. I know I do want to get the Zex wet kit since its the easiest to adjust. I just don't know if I will take it over 75 hp on my engine. Maybe once I pull out my other SC's engine so I will have a back up just in case.
 
The dry kit is very safe and easy to install. It automatically increases pressure on the fuel pressure regulator to give more fuel when the nitrous is spraying. Ive heard if your only using 75 at the most dry kits are the best, if you want 100 or more then go to wet.
 
Scott Long said:
Hey Bob, how much nitrous is running in the "other" SC? I remember we met at David's house last spring. You were telling me how you blew up your SC racing on the highway with the nitrous. Did you ever get the gear vendors overdrive working right now? Had it to the track since that addition? Do you still have the white SC? Haven't heard anything about it since last spring. I just keep thinking what it'd do with a whipple on it.

Lets see 90hp wet/dry on the white one. See pics above for the race dammage on the red car(60HP dry) . The Gear Venders unit is working great (a gotta have if your running 4:11s) a whipple is in my possition but the white car twisted the crank before I got the whipple installed. Im glad it happoned when it did or I would have blamed the whipple. Im at a point in my life where there is no time to work on the cars being a single dad with two girls 6 & 14 and a small business owner takes all of my time. I have managed to put the motor back together for the red car but its sitting on a engine stand waiting to go in the car (Been that way for 5 months) all I need is a weekend to finish up the red car. Then I can start in on the white one.
 
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a little off topic, and a little more basic question, that may have deserved its own thread but here goes anyway....What is the difference between a wet and dry system? there are other systems as well, does anyone know much about them? I'm prolly never gunna build a nitrous car, but it's good to know these things.
 
91supacoop said:
a little off topic, and a little more basic question, that may have deserved its own thread but here goes anyway....What is the difference between a wet and dry system? there are other systems as well, does anyone know much about them? I'm prolly never gunna build a nitrous car, but it's good to know these things.

Do a search, it will all be answered...

the quick version is:

Wet: spray N2O and fuel together from a separate fuel line.
usually for the bigger shots

Dry: spray N20 alone, and have the fuel pressure regulator increae fuel pressure throuh the injectrs for you.
usually the smaller shots
 
This is my personal take on the nitros issue and stock components.

#1 - Hyper pistons are very strong and likely could do fine with nitros as long as A/F mixture is kept under control. The only real issue (in my mind) is that Hyper pistons tend to break rather than melt like forged ones do. These broken pieces can cause other damage in the engine before you can shut it down. Thus my thought is if I think I might break it, I want to make sure it won't be impossible to fix it.

#2 - Stock rods are the week point. If you're wanting to stick with stock rods, you get hyper pistons, and just stay away from nitros. If you want nitros, get stronger rods and new pistons. All new pistons, that I'm aware of, that will work with aftermarket stronger rods require custom pistons for our application. That means they'll be forged.

#3 - Thinking that you'll stick with just a little nitros is like giving a basketball to a kid in a hallway at school and telling him not to bounce it. The chances of the kid resisting are low. Nitros is really easy to get yourself into trouble and when you consider the human mind, I can easily see myself starting with a 60 shot.. Figuring it's been fine, I'll just try this 90 shot. Hey, that worked fine, just for this one race with my brother (gotta wipe that smile off his face) I'll throw this 100 shot in. Bang... It's broke.

Can you use nitros with stock type pistons and rods? Sure. But I wouldn't ever recommend it.
 
Bob, what is gonna be done to the crank for the white SC? I believe Chris had that one offset ground. Was it a stock crank or did he have one custom made? I wonder if Morana has a better crank to use like a billet crank or something. Too bad we are such a small market for performance parts because it would be nice to have SCAT or EAGLE make performance cranks for our motors.

Should be good for mid to high 10's off the squeeze with that whipple. I am a speed junkie just like you, I just can't afford to go that fast yet.... but my time will come. I still love the SC's looks over many new cars on the road so I will stick with it slowly but surely.

Hope to see you at the track when you get it back together. I'm in Virginia Beach now, but I'm going to drive to STL for any meets that I can attend.
 
Stock pistons are Hypertheurmatic or some word like that. .. It's an a level up from normal pistons & a level down from Forged. ...

Anthony
 
Yeah, stock pistons are not forged, I know that the stock crank is forged, and I believe that the stock rods are forged as well.
 
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