2007 Shelby Cobra Mustang

vettewars

Registered User
http://www.mustangheaven.com/stangspecs/2007cobra/07cobra_main.htm

Sorry if I'm coming in late on any discussion of this new mustang. My son is trying to save up for one. Can't tempt him so far with one of my 6 SCs.

So about the car...it will be designed to be under 40K. They made a conscious decision because of the price goal to opt out the IRS, which would have been about 200lbs and $5000 extra!! The most interesting thing I've found about this is how the SVT team leader said "we will build as many as the public demands"....if it's not in this article it's definitely in one of em.

I see this as the potential return of the Mustang on the street similar to when the 5.0s were running around much more than they are now. I'd like to see them blowin away the kids in this neck of the woods that live and breath WRX/Stis...which I can beat at any speed over 90mph....still an aweful menace however. Got me thinking though. Will the SC be up for the challenge of this new mustang?

I've done about 15 minutes of forum search prior to writing this and couldn't seem to find anyone who's dropped the Ford crate motor in, the 530hp 460....or the 514 which is quite a bit more expensive though. I enjoyed reading some of the old posts of Rich with the 460 and hope things are going well in his endeavors. I'm just wondering, with all this horsepower coming onto the streets, I would think there might be a movement afoot to appreciate the soundness of the MN-12 and the cost effectiveness of the crate motor/MN-12 combo. There isn't any company that offers this mate that I could find...and why not...it makes so much sense. You've got everything from companies putting honda engines in Lotus Elises, why not that. I haven't spent any time on the other thunderbird forums to get information, perhaps there's something there.

The point is this....the MN-12 has the chassis to take the crate motor, although a few have commented they have twisted the engine compartment here and there....it's still gotta be as good as the Mustang....and considering the price of a used SC plus the cost of the crate motor, it's really tough to justify going out and spending 40K for such performance that's within reach for 10K.

This is just idle chatter....yes I'm dreaming....I'm still plenty happy with my SC...recently took a 350Z, recently raced down another superbike at high speed about 150mph past the Picatinny Army base here. The old SC shows no signs of blowin smoke or anything with 207K miles the dam thing seems to be faster every time I get in it.

I guess part of the problem is there are many tempting things about this mustang...it looks so dam cool...and a part of me will never forgive myself for selling the old 1970 428 supercobra jet. Maybe I have a problem with my son either killing himself in the mustang on the road or trying to pay it off. But then again, maybe I could work a deal and take over the payments.
 
That new Shelby is going to be one hell of a car..

Ford decieded not to go to IRS in the new stang for cost, weight and durability reasons. They also stated that handling was just as good with the solid axle car. You just lose some refinement. So in the end it just wasnt worth it for them. And from what I hear the new stang handles very well..Still havnt had a test drive in one yet but that shelby is looking mighty tempting fopr a sale
 
i know im going to get yelled at for this butttttttttttttt
i still think its sad for cant break the 500 hp range in that car
dodge has had a 500 hp engine in their viper for years i know it has 2 more cyl but its naturally aspirated
i think that ford could do something to make that shelby kick ***
 
the handling would be as good in most situations....

for most people yes...but not on the limits of the street in aggravating turns mixed with shifting weight or bumps. The head of the project said something like, "go ahead and drive one and see if you can tell the difference", which is bullcrap just based on the comment itself, but ridiculous that he expects people to simply say oh yes it rides so nice I see what you mean.

I have proven IRS on the street can easily beat the old 5.0 mustang...this happened to me in a number of situations but particularly in a tight S going up a hill where I was doing 65 around one turn and the mustang had its back end fly out when it shifted weight and the entire rear end bounced on an inconsistency in the payment causing the entire rear to shift about 1 foot instantly sideways. The race was instantly over for him as I gained about 6 car lengths by the top of the hill. My son watched it happen as he was pinned against the door in the SC looking backwards. I will constantly and confidently pull full speed 4 wheel drifts with the SC that I could never justify in a solid axle mustang on inconsistent street pavement.

I used to be a street racer on a 1000 yoshimura suziki, and now I enjoy racing superbikes on backroads with the SC. I would never do it in a solid axle mustang. I remember Rich saying the 460 isn't a big difference in weight, I would think the 530hp MN-12 could be made into a good street racer that the solid axle cobra mustang would have to fear.
 
Where the IRS refinement comes into play is on none smooth surfaces..Where you really shouldnt be going that fast!

As far as breaking the 500 mark..I think its relatively safe to say thats not more then a tune and a pulley away on that car
 
Playing with HP in excess of 400 at the wheels is a recipe for trouble for an inexperienced driver. You didn't say how old your son is but I'm guessing that if you are involved with a car purchase that he might make, he's not old enough to have the experience necessary to harness that kind of power responsibly. More than likely he is going to try to "out-do" his dad at some point which means he may very well end up in over his head. Just something to keep in mind.

It helps with any of this to have the kid involved with the building of the car. If he built it he will at least understand what the HP means and what it takes to put it to the ground. A car such as the Shelby is more for the kind of person who has already done all that and doesn't really need that kind of "experience" anymore.

Regardless of the "off the showroom floor" power levels of the Shelby, the car most certainly has the potential to be "stupid fast" very easily. Is that really your goal for your son?

As for the SC, the V6 is capable of sustained power levels of 400+rwhp which isn't the greatest, but it is significant. If you really want bigger numbers than that, then the best course of action would be an 03 Cobra motor. That way you could maintain your SC character and refinement as well as benefit from the added power capabilities of that motor.

Regardless of what you may have read about the 460 in these cars, they are much heavier, are not (at least not easily) supported with a 5 or 6 speed gearbox, and do not accomodate many amenities (like A/C or fuel injection for example). You can't honestly tell me that you would be happy with a C6 in your SC would you? I think if you were to look at a supercharged 5.0 with the stock 5spd you'd be looking at plenty of go juice to keep up with just about anyone. And it bolts right in. :)
 
While I agree with XR7 Dave, I would also have to disagree. If his son can handle the 400+HP & 400+ft-lb of torque, then by all means go for it. The SC was my first car, and many many people would say that the SC is no car for beginners, yet I've never had an accident. If his son understands the responsibility of driving a car, any car, then this shouldn't be a problem for him.
 
Oh but Dave what about a SBF 460 built from a 351W? It would be a mountain motor hiding in sheeps skin. Plus the extra weight of the BBF 460 wont be present.

Shane
 
Viper

Randle,
I got a ride in my new neighbors 2003 Viper with 450 hp.
Holy **** talk about back pressure/push into the seat. :D
The next day, when I got into my SC, it felt like I was in a Civic. :rolleyes:
I don't think I would want to drive some thing like that without some professional driving lessons.
Not to mention the braking 60-0 in 120 ft. Handling felt like a go cart.
The rear tires are 345's, almost 14" wide. :eek:
 
Randle said:
While I agree with XR7 Dave, I would also have to disagree. If his son can handle the 400+HP & 400+ft-lb of torque, then by all means go for it. The SC was my first car, and many many people would say that the SC is no car for beginners, yet I've never had an accident. If his son understands the responsibility of driving a car, any car, then this shouldn't be a problem for him.
You missed my point completely. However, back to the real question. In a round about way, what I was also getting at is that if a person is actually a Shelby GT500 customer, then comparing that to an SC of any type is no comparison. However, "saving up" for a GT500 sounds about as foolish as dumping $10K+ into a 15yr old SC. Dreams are good though. :)
 
Good insights

Dave brought me around to reality. Being able to do 20+ mpg is something to remember as we move to 3 bucks per gallon. Perhaps I've watched too many car auctions on TV recently where they rave about Ford re-entering the high performance arena with the 460/514 crate offerings. Powerful, modern, and nostalgic. But the truth is, the ultimate steet engine for the SC and most cars would be a 400 to 500hp capable 5.0 or 4.6 supercharged V8 setup. So the original question I would modify to ask....why doesn't Ford or others pursue such offerings?...now wouldn't that make more sense and have more customer appeal and wider applications than the 460? Was it merely trying to get to this fringe "highest horsepower" or magazine type bragging rights appeal that drove them to the 460/530hp engine?

Well I know one part of the answer would be, wouldn't it be nice to have all the electronics that the SC already has to manage the SC fuel, etc. It's generally easier for aftermarkets to give you the basic engine, less supercharging, avoiding issues of how to adapt SCs, electronics, etc.

So if you look at what's out there to buy, I can't seem to find any offerings and done up engines that are capable of competing with a done up SC motor, for instance:

http://www.fordcobraengines.com/302suggestions.htm
You can get from them a 5.0 done that'll do 400hp for $8,000 that could take a supercharger easily to 500hp according to the guy. Forged crank, good pistons, etc, but by the time you're done adding the SC and retrofitting it for the SC it's going to be 11 to 12K, and that doesn't compete at all with the SC motor done up in terms of bang for buck.

To get more competitively towards what could compete with a done up SC motor, you could go to ford, the M-6001-C469 4.6 Cobra Mustang 1999 engine is $5800 http://www.fordracingparts.com/crateengine/modularcobra.asp
but how reliable will that be....can it live at 400hp with supercharging?...it doesn't appear to be any advantage over the SC modified engine....and then add the price for supercharging.

Here's some interesting comments made from a cobra forum
http://www.ffcobra.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=17;t=000458;p=0

"Have you guys seen the new Ford Motorsports Catalog?
Look on page 19.
Brand new '99 or 2000 Cobra DOHC motor AND transmission package. "Complete from 57mm Throttle body to Oil pan."
Signature series package. The catalog says, "Perfect for street rods etc." I guess we're the "etc."
305 HP 1999 part number M6001C469
315 HP 2000 part number M6001C460
Includes computer and harness. Picture shows exhaust complete with cats!
Here's the kicker. $5,995
Six grand for a brand new Cobra motor/tranny.
Yipers!"

and

"John, in my opinion, looks are just about everything out here in Cobra Fantasyland. Yeah, the ability to leave 200 foot burnout tracks is really nice, but the opportunities are few and far between. Driveability is something I suppose should be considered, but unless you're Ralph Button (has he reached 200k miles yet?), it ain't that big a deal. I've been lusting after the new 4.6 390HP crate engine for a while now, and the 315 HP unit with the trans, wiring and computer is a hell of a deal. But I can't get past the fact that the mod engines have so much "stuff" on them...they have so many wires and hoses draped all over the place that they look like they're on life support. My next build, starting soon, will probably be a coupe..no, a Spyder...no, a Coupe...er, whatever it is, will have an all aluminum 302 with either a system from Wayne or real Webers. Clean, neat, eye candy for motorheads."

then scroll down and look at the difference in size, a 5.0 next to the 4.6 crate motor
 
300 rwhp is pretty easy to obtain cheaply from a 5.0 liter stang..Over that you need to start investing in better parts...But I can definately top 400rwhp with a SC 5.0 relatively easy and probably cheaper then the 3.8...And more durable....But I love my lil 3.8///Cuz its different..kinda like being the Red headed stepchild
 
$9000 or less seems like a starting point....

for a true 500+ hp capable 5.0 that could allow also supercharging.

Perhaps you know of certain sources that can give you a quality 5.0, forged crank, good pistons etc for a low price, but right now I’m just looking at stuff on the web, like the Ford M-6007-C347 for $7000.

I was surprised the SC kits for the 5.0 have come down in price. For instance:

This 5psi entry level supercharger kit from Vortech has been a best seller ever since we first started offering it. Retail price on this kit is under $2,000 so you can get more horsepower without having to dig deep into your pockets. This kit contains the same internal gear-drive system and quality mounting kit as it's big brothers which offers a standard of durability that you have come to expect from all of Vortech's products. As your budget permits, you can easily upgrade this system to allow it to perform at a level that even it's big brothers would be jealous of.
You requested a price quotation for: Vortech Supercharger Kit for 1986-1993 Ford Mustang 5.0L (V-1 SC-Trim, satin) [more info]
Part Number: V4FA218-010
SuperchargersOnline.com*: $1,849.00
List Price: $2085.95
You Save: $236.95
If you consider a ground up project where you have to add something like $2500 or so of intake improvements, intercooler, etc, then this is starting to look attractive.

Better than the 460 implant idea. Even at this rather high price of about $9000 you’ve got your 500+ setup which is streetable, good on gas, easier retrofit to the Thunderbird.

So perhaps there's something out there that can cut this total price down to say 7 or 8K?
 
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