Snow Performance Alcohol injection kits available - Updated 07/13/06

XR7 Dave said:
Either way. You definitely need this kit. The AR and this thing go so hand-in-hand it's ridiculous.
well then keep an eye out for my e-mail. I can't let Kurt K steal my title away from me down here.
 
Here are some pictures of the kit installed in my car. I have not included a pic on the nozzle because I -ah- didn't read the directions carefully and installed it not in accordance with said instructions. So to avoid showing you how NOT to do it, I have left that one out. ;)

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DSC05020a.jpg


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I mounted the controller vertically so that if any water did get into it, it would have a better chance of draining out, and also I plan to put some clear tape over the control dials after I have it dialed in. The controller is fairly water resistant but it is supposed to be mounted away from sources of water.

I also used a relay to power the unit. They don't include a relay, but I with the high current draw of the pump, I didn't want to pull from another circuit. I tapped the DTRL connector for key switch power (purple/orange wire I believe) and ran that to trigger a relay which is connected directly to the solenoid for main power.

The solenoid and the LED indicator are both connected to the pump 12v input wire. Very simple stuff. Then only one wire is run into the car for the LED and you just ground that to the dash somewhere.

All hoses are quick disconnect push/plug connectors. I used a little teflon pipe dope on all the NPT connections to ensure a good seal without over tightening. I was very pleased with the ease of installation of the kit. It's all well thought out and employs quality parts IMO.

:)
 
Looks good. Also, looks like I'm going to have a challenge, since I can't mount anything (except maybe the reservoir) where you've mounted it. I think the removal of my front bumper cover is in my future.
 
Is it possible to mount the controller inside the car and not under the hood. I mounted the "brain" for my electric fuel pressure gauge under the hood, it got wet, it broke. Just passing that along for what it's worth.

Micah
 
Micahdogg said:
Is it possible to mount the controller inside the car and not under the hood. I mounted the "brain" for my electric fuel pressure gauge under the hood, it got wet, it broke. Just passing that along for what it's worth.

Micah
You can mount it where ever you want. I thought about mounting it inside, but I decided that it is pretty well sealed except for the dial windows and I plan to seal those myself.
 
Dave,

I'm a little confused on the MAF voltage vs Boost thing. Are you saying that the MAF voltage will always corespond to a specific boost level ? Are there any high rpms situations that would cause the MAF voltage to increase enough to trigger the system without actually being into boost ?

I always thought the the amount of air flowing thru the mass air meter was more a function of engine RPMs and not neccesarily the load. I assumed that load was calculated by the computer using tables based on MAF voltage vs. TPS voltage vs Engine rpms.

David
 
Dave, the kit Snow was selling at WFC used a different box that you actually ran a vacuum line into. That box would allow you to controll two stages of misting and had two dials. One sets boost at low misting and other sets boost at high misting.

This is a different module that reads voltage from the MAF. I'm sure it does coorespond (for the most part) with a certain amount of boost because how can you have the airflow required for say 8 psi without being at 8 psi.

edited after re-reading.

Micah
 
XR7 Dave said:
Retail on the system is $439+ shipping. SCCOA price for the first 5 people who sign up is $425 shipping included. To be on this list please email me using the link at the bottom of this post.


David, you have mail.
 
After reading more about this, it sounds like a good idea to have an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. I am glad I have one in case it is needed come tune time.
 
You can actually hurt performance using this kit without having your car properly tuned. SO to bolt on this kit and go really isnt where the gains are comming from.

I think the main questions are how does the MAF voltage know what boost we are at?(It doesnt correct?) And why is using the MAF voltage better then using boost for reference.

Grand nationals have been successufully using boost to activate thier methanol systems for years and a basic methanol type system such as the snow can be built at home. Even the Maf applied switch can be easily duplicated. So what are the real advantages to this kit? It aint cheap
 
DamonSlowpokeBaumann said:
You can actually hurt performance using this kit without having your car properly tuned. SO to bolt on this kit and go really isnt where the gains are comming from.

I think the main questions are how does the MAF voltage know what boost we are at?(It doesnt correct?) And why is using the MAF voltage better then using boost for reference.

Grand nationals have been successufully using boost to activate thier methanol systems for years and a basic methanol type system such as the snow can be built at home. Even the Maf applied switch can be easily duplicated. So what are the real advantages to this kit? It aint cheap

The advantage of this kit lies in the fact that we can achieve full boost at 2000rpm, but we can't handle full spray at that rpm. This is what Todd Jelle found with his older system. They tuned his on the dyno at Coy's and got a good HP gain from it. However, on the car and at the track it caused the car to bog badly off the line. Then if you have an adjustable system like the SMC system which is very popular with the GN guys, you can turn it down, but then you don't have enough at high rpm.

This system looks only at airflow and starts the spray of 50% at whatever MAF voltage you pick, and then ramps up to 100% spray at another MAF point which you also pick. So, bottom line is that it a) doesn't know what boost you are at, and b) doesn't care what boost you are at.

If you log MAF voltages you would realize that while MAF readings are not directly tied to boost, but rather it is a function of rpm and boost together. You will not reach a high enough MAF value to trigger the system unless you are under plenty of load to warrant the use of a/w. The system targets a certain % of total airflow so you never end up with too much. That is the key.

As for price, I think that if you sourced the SS nozzles, 160psi pump, solenoid, and parts you will find that you won't do it for a whole lot less than their base kit, but then you would still have to figure out how to ramp up pump pressure as a function of MAF voltage. Not the easiest thing in the world for the average SC owner.

As with any product, if only we had the time etc, etc., we could do darn near anything ourselves. Problem is we'd get old and die before we ever finished anything. When I consider how much time and money we have spent on other things for our cars, this is such a bargain that it is ridiculous.

I absolutely feel that this kit provides an EXCELLENT upgrade with no tuning required.

1) Most SC's are lean after some mods. This can only be helped with added fuel and higher octane.

2) Most SC's with some mods make more boost than stock which means they already have too much timing. Some processors have as much as 29 deg base timing. My first pull with my car was with 23 deg timing and I ended up with 30 deg. Not far at all above stock!

3) Most all SC's are pulling timing on the top end due to excessive ACT's (this kit will drop them about 20-40 deg!)

4) Dyno testing has shown that almost all SC's with any modifications are experiencing detonation. Did I mention 120 octane?

The fact is that I did not lean out the car when I did testing. All I did was increase timing 2 deg over stock. My car saw 11.5 AF WITH the a/w injection, 11.8-12.0 without it. I could have leaned it out a whole point to 12.5 and possibly picked up more HP. I also could have used a 50/50 mix of methanol and water instead of just WW fluid....

I think even more gains will be had than what I have shown so far. I have been very conservative with my testing (as usual btw).

:)
 
Dave may have explained this differently but, the Idea I have from how my system worked, it wasn't easy to tune for different Altitudes or other variables.
It might be tuned fine for a one day use but given different variables on a different day at a different corrected elevation it could kill performance.
As for the GN guys they(turbos) spool up boost therefore its easier to tune it for different variables. Some test runs on the dyno or track are needed to assure correct amounts and timing of spray, you have agreater chance of getting it right.
As for Supercharged cars when we go WOT we get 60-80% of our boost all at once then it increases with rpm, so you may get the spray right at a given rpm /boost but too much or too little everywhere else, thus killing overall performance. his is because the older systems just spray a predetermined amount of spray at a & above a given boost reference.(NO CONTROL)
Its much easier to use a basic alky setup on a turbo car, since you can almost depend on a progressive boost rate that continues to increase with rpm. If you've ever seen the GN type spray setups, most have a control for amount of spray, and one for when it starts spraying.
I for one think this maybe the best idea yet for a supercharged car. time & testing will tell.
 
On a cool night, with the alcohol turned up a little bit, the car is insane.

:eek:

That's all I have to say about that.
 
Hi Dave, O.K. This previos reply above thin one now.I'm wrting what he say's, I wonder if you have checked this out. This is the kit. as you describe it. One thing 2 nozzels not 3 I would prefer the larger nozzels. May want to go with 2 sets. Complete) I looked at some things myself but I'm Riding this train. (Group) Good talking with you.

You get:

- 2 qt reservoir with mounting tabs and screws.
- Quick disconnect fittings and about 6' of hose.
- Fitting to tap existing WW tank if desired.
- 140psi pump, mounting screws included.
- Positive stop flow solenoid.
- Nozzle holder
- 3 -1= 2 larger nozzles, 175/375/625 ml/min larger.
- 1/8" NPT tap for nozzle
- MAF controller
- Wires and harness
- LED light
- instructions

As soon as I download the pics of my installation I'll post them. (Tomorrow).

{edit} Just so everyone knows I talked to Snow today and you will only be getting 2 nozzles instead of three. The info on the Jegs add is incorrect. For under 350rwhp applications you will get the two smaller nozzles and for 350+rwhp applications you will get the two larger ones. Honestly, you are only going to use the one middle one for 90% of all applications anyway (that's what I'm using).

Thanks,
Take it easy! I'll update you on tuning for the 30th.
Victor.....
 
So am I to undersand that with this snow kit, one could safely overdrive the blower 15% so long as the resevoir isn;t run dry?
 
I am not going to tell you that anything is safe, but I will tell you that I'd not have any reservations doing it myself. I run 20psi in my motor (stock pistons and felpro gaskets).
 
XR7 Dave said:
I am not going to tell you that anything is safe, but I will tell you that I'd not have any reservations doing it myself. I run 20psi in my motor (stock pistons and felpro gaskets).


David,

Were you thinking these units would ship today or this week anyhow?
 
XR7 Dave said:
I am not going to tell you that anything is safe, but I will tell you that I'd not have any reservations doing it myself. I run 20psi in my motor (stock pistons and felpro gaskets).


I knew you're running 20 in your test, but wth AR... I was just curious if running 15 around town, semi-daily driving, would be safe to OD 15% on a stockish blower using the snow kit.

I will definately have to fid some more $$$$ to sneak one in for the the build!
 
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Hi Dave same question as sizemoremk

So am I to understand that with this snow kit, one could safely overdrive the blower 15% so long as the resevoir isn;t run dry?
__________________
How about this 15% 20% what do you feel is a safe or reasonable overdrive?

I have to run out I'll catch you later!..............,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,..................
 
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I am overdriving my blower 15% and I drive the car all the time. I am running a stock intercooler and have not had any issues. I do however have one of these kits on the way. :D
 
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