Just got done gasket matching my exhaust ports, take a look

seawalkersee said:
What does it cost to coat that stuff?


Chris


www.techlinecoatings.com

It is expensive to have it put on, but you can buy retail version of the stuff.
Mike 38sc says he has used it with good results, so I'm gonna try it!

I just ordered their black satin (header paint), CBC1 (thermal barrier coating), and DFL1 (the dry filt lubricant)
 
MIKE 38sc said:
I like to. ;)


So this stuff don't flake off after a few miles?????

What has your experience been using it?

I am also curious about masking the parts with duct tape, how in Hades do you get it off after you cook it????




On another note, I am still mucho confused-o about the dang valves...

Money is getting to be very much an object, so I am curious if it is worth it to go with bigger valves in stock seats?

I have read conflicting things on this. I seen someone say that 1.56 valves won't fit in stock seats, then I seen elsewhere that 1.60 valves will fit???

I see that 1.54 valves should work OK, but I don't see where that is a SBC valve??? Is there another 1.54 valve of the same length as ours?

On the other hand, I read elsewhere that big valves in stock seats will be more of a restriction, because a bigger valve means a bigger blocked area???

What relationship does valve size have to the power band? I mean is it like longer duration, will it hurt low end too much???

By the way, who thinks I shoud go ahead and put new valveguides in since I cut them down while smoothing the exhasut ports???


Any more thoughts?

Thanks guys!
 
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No it does'nt flake off if you make sure the surface is properly preped.
Those guy's supply most of the big coatings applicators with there coatings.
Remove all your masking materials before bakeing, just be very carefull as the coatings are fragile until baked.
I've used that stuff on MX bike motors, go Kart motors and of course car engines, and it works great. Best to apply it with an airbrush but when it comes to big parts like headers and the external surface of turbo housings use a bigger touch up spray gun.
 
If you check some old posts of mine I useed the complete swaintech line of coatings on my heads.

PistonTops were coated

Combustion chamber and valve faces were coated

Intake ports got a high flow coating

Exhaust ports were ceramic coated.

Here are some pictures

chamber.jpg



exhaust1.jpg



intake.jpg



manifold1.jpg



valves.jpg
 
Wow...you guys suck. Im jellous. That looks really good. How well does it work? I mean is there a performance gain on a street engine? Does it help cooling? If I am not mistaken, you are not supposed to use your household oven because after you bake it the oven is fooked.

Chris
 
MIKE 38sc said:
No it does'nt flake off if you make sure the surface is properly preped.
Those guy's supply most of the big coatings applicators with there coatings.
Remove all your masking materials before bakeing, just be very carefull as the coatings are fragile until baked.
I've used that stuff on MX bike motors, go Kart motors and of course car engines, and it works great. Best to apply it with an airbrush but when it comes to big parts like headers and the external surface of turbo housings use a bigger touch up spray gun.


Is it suppose to be on the seat???? Wouldn't it get knocked off, and start chipping???

When you say airbrush, do you mean the little bitty ones like they do the car tags in the mall and such???

Also what about the masking with duct tape??? how would you get it off????

Chris, the coatings they sell to the public are non-toxic from my understanding... The ones they sell the shops have the bad stuff in them...
 
You would mask it, spray it, pull the tape, then bake it. The taste of the stuff stays in the oven from what I hear.

Chris
 
DamonSlowpokeBaumann said:
If you check some old posts of mine I useed the complete swaintech line of coatings on my heads.


Is that not too slick for intake ports???

I thought they needed to be slightly textured for better turbulance???


One of these articels had soething about a 30degree vs 45 degree seat... The 30* flowed about 10+ CFM better at lower lifts. I take it this is something I want??? Is 30* standard on a "competition type" valve job?

I tried to unshroud my valves at about 30* also...

The mopar article has more to say about valve sizes also, bigger not necessarily better for the flow numbers. But then again flow numbers may not mean very much for velocity....

Mike 38sc, you once told me once to leave the stock intake valves the same, and go with slightly bigger exhaust valves. I assume this is because low lift might be affected? On the ex side does the the bigger exhaust valve reduce the "funnel shape" of the exhaust port, making the "entrance" and "exit" closer to the same size?


I am also curious now about the CC size now that I have unshrouded the valves, should I mill the heads a little more to make up for this? I am also curious about this "extra quench pad" you once spoke of as well. I am kinda tempted to try this out, will a mig welder warp the heads or cause the seats to fall out from that far off??? Should I try to add a small patch on the other side near the spark plug? Kinda behind the spark plug? Or is this too risky? I have access to a big mig welder (millermatic 251? I think) with an aluminum spool gun?

Also, found another coupla good head porting article I haven't seen yet....

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/us/us110128.htm

http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/95518/

http://moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/5118/

Thanks!
 
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sizemoremk said:
Is that not too slick for intake ports???

I thought they needed to be slightly textured for better turbulance???


One of these articels had soething about a 30degree vs 45 degree seat... The 30* flowed about 10+ CFM better at lower lifts. I take it this is something I want??? Is 30* standard on a "competition type" valve job?

I tried to unshroud my valves at about 30* also...

The mopar article has more to say about valve sizes also, bigger not necessarily better for the flow numbers. But then again flow numbers may not mean very much for velocity....

Mike 38sc, you once told me once to leave the stock intake valves the same, and go with slightly bigger exhaust valves. I assume this is because low lift might be affected? On the ex side does the the bigger exhaust valve reduce the "funnel shape" of the exhaust port, making the "entrance" and "exit" closer to the same size?


I am also curious now about the CC size now that I have unshrouded the valves, should I mill the heads a little more to make up for this? I am also curious about this "extra quench pad" you once spoke of as well. I am kinda tempted to try this out, will a mig welder warp the heads or cause the seats to fall out from that far off??? Should I try to add a small patch on the other side near the spark plug? Kinda behind the spark plug? Or is this too risky? I have access to a big mig welder (millermatic 251? I think) with an aluminum spool gun?

Also, found another coupla good head porting article I haven't seen yet....

http://www.babcox.com/editorial/us/us110128.htm

http://chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/95518/

http://moparmusclemagazine.com/techarticles/5118/

Thanks!

Whew!!!!!! You sure like to take big bites dont you? LOL!!!!!! :p
Bigger exhaust valves will help the SC engine since its constipated on that side.
DO NOT weld on your heads with a MIG welder PERIOD!!!!!!
DO NOT TIG weld on your heads unless you are properly setup to stress relieve the heads afterwards. You would need to remove the seats and guides before any welding was done then all of that stuff will need to be remachined to put it back where it needs to be. Welding moves stuff around and there's no way around it, thats why welded heads are expensive lots of work. ;)
You need to CC the combustion chambers with a beret and idealy get them all at the same capacity. Once you know the capacity of the chambers you can then calculate how much to shave the heads to the desired compression ratio.
Are you starting to think that maybe you're wadeing to far from the shore?
Head porting is part black art and magic mixed together and no 2 sets of heads flow the same. Thats why race teams have several sets of heads and they match up which ones work best with the conditions they are being used for.
I gotta go get some more chicken bones and eyes of newt.
I'm outa here. :D
 
Are you running bigger valves on your exhaust side Mike? If so How much bigger, wheree did you get them, what had to be done to make them fit, etc...

As far as the 5 angle job on the head goes, its really up to you for that. I think I read that in these engines it does not help until about 5k rpm (I could have read that wrong though).

And I concour with Mike on this. Do not weld the head. Any welding that can be done will warp the thing. Not to the extent of unusable but stuff moves, espicallly in aluminum. And a MIG is not the correct tool. You would not get the heat saturation required to make a good weld on these heads.

And Mike38. How much gain comes from this coating business? I read earlier that you have to blast the parts. How then do you do the valves?

Chris
 
MIKE 38sc said:
Whew!!!!!! You sure like to take big bites dont you? LOL!!!!!! :p
Bigger exhaust valves will help the SC engine since its constipated on that side.
DO NOT weld on your heads with a MIG welder PERIOD!!!!!!
DO NOT TIG weld on your heads unless you are properly setup to stress relieve the heads afterwards. You would need to remove the seats and guides before any welding was done then all of that stuff will need to be remachined to put it back where it needs to be. Welding moves stuff around and there's no way around it, thats why welded heads are expensive lots of work. ;)
You need to CC the combustion chambers with a beret and idealy get them all at the same capacity. Once you know the capacity of the chambers you can then calculate how much to shave the heads to the desired compression ratio.
Are you starting to think that maybe you're wadeing to far from the shore?
Head porting is part black art and magic mixed together and no 2 sets of heads flow the same. Thats why race teams have several sets of heads and they match up which ones work best with the conditions they are being used for.
I gotta go get some more chicken bones and eyes of newt.
I'm outa here. :D

OK, I was wonderign if since this was in a more "meaty" area, it might be OK... I got a guy that can do this, but no mo' money to pay him... I guess I'll hold off on the welding of the heads till down the road. Maybe my other spare set can get done next summer... Maybe going for the welded ports, and the extra quench pad...

I already plan to CC the chambers, do they all need to be exactly the same, or is withint 1/2 a CC acceptable or what???

Once I CC head, what is the correct method to calculate how much to shave the head???

By the way, what is a beret???

Thanks guys!
 
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Here is the progress...

I smoothed all the areas near the seats, and blended the unshrouded area in also.

I am affraid to do too much to the intake side, as I'm afraid I will screw up the intended swirl and or turbulence, so all I did was soften all the radi, and any bumps or ridges, I also left the injector ditch alone. The only other thing I did was leaned on the middle intake runner a little more with the cartridge roll, where the wall "shifts" to try and give a little more direct path from the port to the bowl. (Thanks Randy!!!)

I think all I got left is to go over everything once more with a cartridge roll or two, and CC the chambers.

One more question, on the coatings, do I want to coat the seats???

Thanks alot guys!

Here are the pics!
 

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The beret is a glass tube with a funnel end on it. It has markings on the side so you can measure it. The way I have always heard is to take a piece of plexiglass and some rtv or something sticky, fill a syringe (sp) with rubbin alcohol. The plexiglass needs to have a hole in it. Then with the valves and plugs back in place push the liquid into the cc. The closer to the same they are the better. However, in order for that to be correct, you must also measure the installed height of the piston on TDC. But since you are havin the whole thing done, it should be correct.

What is this extra quench pad you guys are talking about?

Chris
 
OK, someone has got to have some criticism on these heads.

I cleaned them up a little more, and smoothed things out just a hair more, but they look about the same.

I have em with me today and will take them to the machine shop to see what he thinks.

He's a no BS type guy, so I think he'll tell me if I screwed them up too bad....

I'd rather hear some good ole SC criticism though....
 
You can buy a large syringe from a farm service store,to use as
a beret.You will also need a peice of plexiglass to cover chamber.
And drill a hole in center of plexiglass, the same size as end of syringe.

You will also need to CC the top of piston,on TDC.So you will
also need a dial indicator set in a bridge to go over piston..

If you buy these tools or make what you need. I will then give
the formula .So you will know how much to cc your heads,or
machine the deck of block or heads to come up with the compression
ratio you think you need.Your machinest should know how to do this.

RANDY
 
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Randy N Connie said:
You can buy a large syringe from a farm service store,to use as
a beret.You will also need a peice of plexiglass to cover chamber.
And drill a hole in center of plexiglass, the same size as end of syringe.

You will also need to CC the top of piston,on TDC.So you will
also need a dial indicator set in a bridge to go over piston..

If you buy these tools or make what you need. I will then give
the formula .So you will know how much to cc your heads,or
machine the deck of block or heads to come up with the compression
ratio you think you need.Your machinest should know how to do this.

RANDY


:confused:

My plan was to measure the CCs, and make sure they are all the same, and adjust accordingly.

I was gonna measure my other spare stock CCs and compare what the old vs new CCs are.

I figured there was a calculation I could make to say .xxx" shaved to make up for xx CCs removed?

I was just going with stock CR...

I'm headed to the machinist before they close, I hope he don't tell me I screwed them up too much!

Is there a problem with my plan to just compare the old heads to my ported ones to get the CC difference???

Thanks guys!
 
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Measure the combustion chamber CCs.Find the chamber with
the most CCs. Then match all of the smaller chambers as close
as you can to the largest cumbustion chamber.

I would not worry about lowering your compession a little.
From the back cut to unshroud the valves.Since this is a
blower motor you can make it up with a smaller blower pulley.

And where you made the back-cut for valve unshrouding.
Roud the cuts edges between the valve face and cut.

RANDY
 
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Randy N Connie said:
Measure the combustion chamber CCs.Find the chamber with
the most CCs. Then match all of the smaller chambers as close
as you can to the largest cumbustion chamber.

I would not worry about lowering your compession a little.
From the back cut to unshroud the valves.Since this is a
blower motor you can make it up with a smaller blower pulley.

And where you made the back-cut for valve unshrouding.
Roud the cuts edges between the valve face and cut.

RANDY

Randy!

Have you worked on motors before ;)

You seem to be quite the source for automtive info!

That is pretty mush the same thing the machinist said, so i will only be milling enough for flatness. Also, thanks for the tip on the center intake port!

I appreciate your help kindsir!


The next questoin is valves again. The machnist measured the seats, and in his opinion, the 1.56 valves would not fit "correctly" in the stock seats. He said some 1.54 valves would fit, but I am not sure where, other than custom to get 1.54 valves. He is gonna check on some 1.54 valves for me, but said if I had to get custom 1.54 valves, they would be around $20 each...

Is anyone using 1.54 valves??? I see on ebay, 1.54 valves are used in some gt40 heads, but I have no idea what the length difference is? So if anyone can speak to 1.54 valves, I'd really appreciate it!

Oh, he also didn't have anything bad to say about my porting job, so i guess its OK. I'm kinda thinking about getting him to flow these heads, and if the flow numbers are decent, maybe I can copy this set and sell a set or two to help fill in this money pit? I also wouldn't mind knowing how much better they flow... or how much worse they flow :confused: Anyone got the flow numbers on stock heads that I would be able to comapre to? As I assume each head flowed would cost extra ??? Or are any of ya'll setup to flow SC heads???

Thanks guys!
 
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