Autorotor Cars at 2005 Shootout?

DamonSlowpokeBaumann said:
How did you all run. We havnt heard much? Curious what type of power/times yall made :O)

Well, things went um, ok. :D

Todd and Michelle ran a string of 12.40's and when they figured out that they were running out of gas on the top half of the track came back with a 12.1 @ 112 in the final against Kevin Leitem.

My car was running poopy without a tune (dont' ask) but still managed 400hp on the dyno even with a malfunctioning alky system and lots of detonation. After fixing the problems it made one partial power pass at 12.1 @ 113 (I lifted in 3rd because of an unidentified noise). Second pass twisted off the driveshaft and ended my fun for the day.

Brian Oatway's AR also made 400rwhp but managed to shatter both halfshafts on the launch so he didn't get any passes in. Seems Raxles are pretty much junk these days.

And the other AR was Chris Zwemke who ran - I think - 14.0 @ 103mph with his bone stock engine and stock IC suffering from 24-25psi boost. He didn't break but left early due to family concerns. He made 300rwhp on the dyno on Friday.

And that is what happened. :)
 
XR7 Dave said:
And the other AR was Chris Zwemke who ran - I think - 14.0 @ 103mph with his bone stock engine and stock IC suffering from 24-25psi boost. He didn't break but left early due to family concerns. He made 300rwhp on the dyno on Friday.

I guess I just don't get it. Stock motor, stock IC, 24psi boost, and 300rwhp. Good for Chris! . . I just had the car on a dynojet and I had 266rwhp, and that peaked at like, 3,500 rpm. It was all downhill from there. Curve looks like a half moon. Maximum boost of 18psi didn't hit until almost 5,500 rpm. Torque peaked at 299 at about 5,500 also. A/F peaked at 12.7 at around 4,500. All this with the engine at about 185° or so with the outside temp at about 65° while it rained like heck outside.

Catching a flight in about 7 hours, so I will post up the chart once I get back next week and get it scanned. Just needed to vent when I saw that. Talk about needing something. :confused:

Ira
 
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XR7 Dave said:
Seems Raxles are pretty much junk these days.

So how's this gonna get fixed? Raxles used to be the solution, although they might not have stood up to the new power levels anyway. Any ideas?
 
Anybody can break anything. As usual Damon has not been paying attention to what I've been saying for the last 2 years. :p Neither were the 3 other people who broke axles at the shootout. :rolleyes:

I didn't break any axles. ;) And there is a reason for that.

The heat treat in the snouts on the new Raxles are junk. Plain and simple.

If you make sure that your wheel bearings are good and use the right tires you won't break axles. And of course if you run an auto you won't break them either.

Ira, your exhaust = bad. We've discusses this. Your tune may also be bad, and you aren't getting enough boost. We will fix some of this when I get out there for tuning. In the mean time you can fix the exhaust. Nonetheless post your dyno chart so we can see how that is. :)
 
XR7 Dave said:
And of course if you run an auto you won't break them either.
That's not exactly true :rolleyes: :p Of course, mine was just a bad CV joint, and not completely grenaded like others.
 
I got two to say different........

XR7 Dave said:
Anybody can break anything.

If you make sure that your wheel bearings are good and use the right tires you won't break axles. :eek: And of course if you run an auto you won't break them either. :eek:
Even with an auto you can rip them apart, I got two samples for you to see if needed.... :D .......Rich
 
Go ahead guys, like I said anybody can break anything. Within reason axles don't break unless they are subjected to extreme shock loads. Rich, nothing you do with your 800+hp monster applies to the 250-300rwhp cars that busted shafts at the shootout. My point was and remains that people who break things are abusing them and need to rethink what they are doing. This applies to you as well. ;)

Gary Kuhn and I have proven that axles will hold up decently at over 400rwhp if treated right. Others have proven that 250rwhp is plenty to break axles, transmissions, etc. if abused. That's just how it is.
 
XR7 Dave said:
Go ahead guys, like I said anybody can break anything. Within reason axles don't break unless they are subjected to extreme shock loads. Rich, nothing you do with your 800+hp monster applies to the 250-300rwhp cars that busted shafts at the shootout. My point was and remains that people who break things are abusing them and need to rethink what they are doing. This applies to you as well. ;)

Gary Kuhn and I have proven that axles will hold up decently at over 400rwhp if treated right. Others have proven that 250rwhp is plenty to break axles, transmissions, etc. if abused. That's just how it is.

Chis Wise and I both used stock axles, and when launching on the bottle he had over 600 rwtq and I have around 550. I'd trust a set of rebuilt axles from Autozone over the crap Raxles is selling these days.

David
 
even Scott broke one at the Bash...

XR7 Dave said:
Go ahead guys, like I said anybody can break anything. Within reason axles don't break unless they are subjected to extreme shock loads. Rich, nothing you do with your 800+hp monster applies to the 250-300rwhp cars that busted shafts at the shootout. My point was and remains that people who break things are abusing them and need to rethink what they are doing. This applies to you as well. ;)


When he hit second gear it went boom,,That was just making a power shift at speed....
As for my other car, maybe it is time for some "Strange 35 splines" & a nine inch rear.... Or maybe I have to just go to a tire that will not bite as much...........Rich...P.S. should have seen it tonight at our mini meet. Even the "Boy's in Blue" were impressed. They just told us to stop and go home or they would have to start writing......Boy were we lucky this time.........Rich
 
My axel boke on the 1-2 shift as well. A power shift, but not off launch or anything like that. Even the BFG's were holding on the 1-2 shift. I guess I will have to go to a ET street.

Dave
 
XR7 Dave said:
Well, things went um, ok. :D
And the other AR was Chris Zwemke who ran - I think - 14.0 @ 103mph with his bone stock engine and stock IC suffering from 24-25psi boost. He didn't break but left early due to family concerns. He made 300rwhp on the dyno on Friday.
And that is what happened. :)
14.0 @ 103 mph was he spinning off the line? I ran 13.1 @ 103mph with leaky hg's. Does Chris have a auto or manual? Doesn't his et seem high compared to his mph?
 
pro street rich said:
When he hit second gear it went boom,,That was just making a power shift at speed....

Rich, of all people I would think you would have gotten the message by now. Let me spell it out ONE MORE TIME.

1) New wheel bearings! In almost all cases broken axles are accompanied by bad wheel bearings. A lose wheel bearing will allow the wheel/axle assembly to resonate under load. We all know this type of action will weaken and break parts. Think about how many HB bolts have been broken and why. The same thing applies to axles.

2) Shock loads. As a veteran racer you know that shock loads break things and it will break the weakest link. By purposely creating a weak link you can sometimes create a safety valve for more expensive and hard to replace parts.

3) Wheel hop. Three words. Don't Do It. I can't count how many 5spd guys will tell me "yep, wheel hop was bad on that last run". You don't "deal" with wheel hop, you eliminate it.

So what is the solution? I've posted this 100 times. Here's 101. Use race tires at the track! Not drag radials either. Everyone repeat after me: I WILL USE RACE TIRES. There are reasons that drag tires are made the way that they are. One of those is that they have sidewalls that flex and absorb energy. No drag radial will do that. The construction of a radial tire makes it impossible for the tire to absorb shock like a bias ply race tire will. Drag radials will be sticky but they will not absorb shock.

This doesn't mean that you can't break parts on race tires, it just means that the axles aren't breaking due to HP levels. They are breaking from excessive shock loads. And yes, dumping the clutch at 5000rpm in a 400rwhp SC is excessive. :rolleyes:


As for my other car, maybe it is time for some "Strange 35 splines" & a nine inch rear.... Or maybe I have to just go to a tire that will not bite as much...........Rich...P.S. should have seen it tonight at our mini meet. Even the "Boy's in Blue" were impressed. They just told us to stop and go home or they would have to start writing......Boy were we lucky this time.........Rich

Sounds like you got lucky again huh Rich? :D I do think that unless you just have more to prove to someone about IRS that you are definitely overdue for that 9". ;)
 
not to get in a pi$$in- contest here,BUT

XR7 Dave said:
Rich, of all people I would think you would have gotten the message by now. Let me spell it out ONE MORE TIME.

1) New wheel bearings! In almost all cases broken axles are accompanied by bad wheel bearings. A lose wheel bearing will allow the wheel/axle assembly to resonate under load. We all know this type of action will weaken and break parts. Think about how many HB bolts have been broken and why. The same thing applies to axles.

2) Shock loads. As a veteran racer you know that shock loads break things and it will break the weakest link. By purposely creating a weak link you can sometimes create a safety valve for more expensive and hard to replace parts.

3) Wheel hop. Three words. Don't Do It. I can't count how many 5spd guys will tell me "yep, wheel hop was bad on that last run". You don't "deal" with wheel hop, you eliminate it.

So what is the solution? I've posted this 100 times. Here's 101. Use race tires at the track! Not drag radials either. Everyone repeat after me: I WILL USE RACE TIRES. There are reasons that drag tires are made the way that they are. One of those is that they have sidewalls that flex and absorb energy. No drag radial will do that. The construction of a radial tire makes it impossible for the tire to absorb shock like a bias ply race tire will. Drag radials will be sticky but they will not absorb shock.

This doesn't mean that you can't break parts on race tires, it just means that the axles aren't breaking due to HP levels. They are breaking from excessive shock loads. And yes, dumping the clutch at 5000rpm in a 400rwhp SC is excessive. :rolleyes:




Sounds like you got lucky again huh Rich? :D I do think that unless you just have more to prove to someone about IRS that you are definitely overdue for that 9". ;)
1] Scott was on "Drag slicks" when he broke at the bash.
2] the wheel bearings were less than one week old on both sides.
3] Wheel hop is not something that he will try to drive thru. He has been told more than once, and has seen what happens when others keep their foot in it.
4] He made a shift just as you do, but his broke parts.
5] As for my "IRS" setup, it is always good to see just how far you can push the limits.. David N. asked me just what to look for out of his rear set up.
6] sometimes it is just fun to have fun........Rich
 
Regardless of anything or how strong the metal itself a 28 spline setup just cant handle the load for long. Of course wheelhop and worn parts in your drivetrain can make matters worse.

I know I know...But I have never had that problem. Hey soem cars just defy the laws of physics
 
pro street rich said:
1] Scott was on "Drag slicks" when he broke at the bash.
2] the wheel bearings were less than one week old on both sides.
3] Wheel hop is not something that he will try to drive thru. He has been told more than once, and has seen what happens when others keep their foot in it.
4] He made a shift just as you do, but his broke parts.
5] As for my "IRS" setup, it is always good to see just how far you can push the limits.. David N. asked me just what to look for out of his rear set up.
6] sometimes it is just fun to have fun........Rich

Ya, no sense arguing about it. These cars are nothing but eggshells at the best of times. I should know. :rolleyes:
 
Having dealt with wheel hop ever since 98 when I first hit the track, i can tell you that I don't even think about it anymore. Consequently, I don't even THINK about racing without my e.t. streets. Seriously, if I had my street tires and unlimited free passes on the best prepped track, I would happily sit on the sidelines if I didn't have the e.t. streets.

Once you get real tires, then you move from combating wheel hop to "how hard to I want to try and leave the line." I'm still a wuss and quickly slip the clutch at 3000-3500 rpm. This was getting me easy 1.90-1.95 short times all day long. And now I'm more concerned about my 20,000 mile old clutch than anything else.

Micah
 
Hey Rich, you mean these "Drag Slicks?" :p

brokerun.jpg
 
There is no doubt my lack of experience was a factor in breaking axles. I got the car running the day I left for the shootout with 60Hp more than before and brand new BFG Drag Radials. I need some serious stick time before heading back to the track.

Faulty parts or no I need to learn how to drive the thing so it doesn't break.
 
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