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Thread: New source for head gaskets

  1. #1
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    New source for head gaskets

    I just spoke with Bill at SCE Gaskets in Lancaster, CA-getting information about their Pro Copper head gaskets. He explained that these would not be a good alternative for our cars, and stated that the ICS Titan would be a much better gasket than the Fel-pro offerings or the 4.2 MLS gaskets that have become common in rebuilding SC V6s.

    As he explained it-the problem is that with a layered gasket, combustion pressures over a period of time will separate the layers and cause a leak, usually between combustion chamber and coolant passage. The ICS Titan is an all metal construction with a wire o-ring combustion seal:





    I think that these gaskets are the cure we are looking for in preventing HG failures.

    SCE will tool up a gasket for our cars-we would need to sell 50 pairs, plus have someone in the Lancaster, CA area provide a head and block for tooling purposes-we are looking at a 2 month wait as of now for tooling/production.

    Is this something that we are interested in? I for one think that it would be nice to have a gasket without the issues of the current layered gaskets we use.

  2. #2
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    I'll believe it when I see it

  3. #3
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    I'll believe it when I see it
    If you want to continue running the risk of a HG failure-that's your choice.

    If I can't get 50 guys & gals together for a purchase, I'll pay the costs of tooling myself. These are the same guys that build gaskets for the drag racing teams-they know their stuff.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdman93
    I think that these gaskets are the cure we are looking for in preventing HG failures.
    But do they GUARANTEE? That's the big question. Will they provide any sort of warrantee? The idea sounds good enough, but "sounding" like a good thing and "BEING" a good thing are not always the same. If they can give us some good reason to believe what they claim, I would definately be in for a set. That is, assuming they are not astronomically priced. Will this type of gasket require the block and head to be machined as smooth as the MLS gaskets require?

    Like I said, I would be in for a set.... but after the important questions are answered. If they will offer us nothing more than what we currently have, then it seems fruitless to me. However, thanx goes to you for taking the initiative to do the leg work and get the ball rolling.

    Tracy

  5. #5
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    I might be in for buying a set, but I also would need info on pricing and head finishing before I can commit.
    God bless!!!

    1990 SC auto ... red outside, gray cloth inside ... ~205,000 miles (and climbing) ... driven daily!

  6. #6
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    This is an excellent gasket alternative! The question regarding necessary block preperation is a valid one. However there is no reason to doubt the quality of the gasket or it's ability to seal long term. With the introduction of superchargers capable of exceeding 20psi on our motors, the future will require an ultra high performance part such as this.

    Since the Cometic thing fell through, I would look forward to seeing this happen. It would be a big help to the SC community to have this product available.
    Quote Originally Posted by Miller View Post
    Ya thats why i tape mine down. People think its bc i dont have a moonroof seal (which is true) but its really to keep my roof from ripping off .
    Email me here.

  7. #7
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    Birdman93,
    It is good to see we have another alternative, but the reason the head gasket blowing is detonation not design per say. The combustion chambers on our heads need to be polished to stop hot spots from forming. I have blew heads in my 92 at 92k. I have had two motors rebuilt with FelPro replacements and not had a problem and I am running over 15psi on boost. I might be interested, but do you have a price range for these ICS Titans? FYI....I can get a set of MLS for under $60 from Ford.

    Thanks
    Ken
    1992 Thunderbird SC
    13.322 @ 102.81
    1993 Thunderbird SC 5spd..white
    2002 F350 SD Diesel (SC tow vehicle)

  8. #8
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    I will be rebuilding after the holidays and will be interested. Obviously, I am concerned about the specified preperations for mating surfaces and cost.

    Doug

  9. #9
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    Yeah, lets get a price range and some discussion on mating surfaces...

    I will be ready to install in a couple-few months... So I'd buy a set if the details look good!

  10. #10
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    There are no surface preparations required. These are copper gaskets, and will seal against imperfections in the block and head left from machining.

    The MLS gaskets from Ford WILL fail-they are still a elastomeric/steel sandwich design, and over time the elastomer will fail. As Bill explained it, the ring that seals the compression chamber has a specific memory, allowing it to heat and shrink with the cycles of the motor. Once you hit a point of mileage where the memory is gone (70k-110k), continued cycling forces the metal out and away from the cylinder wall, breaking it and forming a leak.

    SCE ICS Titans use copper gaskets with integral sealing at oil and coolant holes-the copper is engineered to become MORE resistant to pressure as it goes through the heating and cooling process-you can compare this to an annealing process, which makes metals more resistant to stress.

    The gaskets will be available in 5 thicknesses.

    I for one will be getting away from the layered gasket and using an SCE Titan gasket for my Thunderbird-and paying the costs of tooling-since it seems like no one else wants to do this.

    As far as guarantee-do Felpro or Ford warranty their gaskets? Both sites state no warranties are implied or given.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdman93
    since it seems like no one else wants to do this.
    For goodness sakes man, your post has been here for a whopping 3 hours and you've already closed the door on folks. (BTW there is a forum for discussions like this)

    I'd be interested after some more discussion. I'm concerned about the cold water leakage that's been reported by others using copper gaskets in the past. How does their design adress this? Can they discuss any special specific machining that while not required, would be ideal?

  12. #12
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    I for one will be getting away from the layered gasket and using an SCE Titan gasket for my Thunderbird-and paying the costs of tooling-since it seems like no one else wants to do this.
    Take it easy...the post has only been up for a couple hours.

    More questions...Will these Titian gaskets require retorquing like the other SCE copper gaskets ? If so how often will that need to be done ?

    David
    1991 SC AOD 4.2..2.3 Whipple..........10.910 @ 125.61
    2016 SRT Challenger Hellcat...............707HP/650TQ

    My Garage

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Birdman93
    As far as guarantee-do Felpro or Ford warranty their gaskets? Both sites state no warranties are implied or given.

    Does SCE gaskets warranty the ICS Titans???? (I did not see anything on their website) I know Ford warranties their parts for 90 days to 1 year. Ford Motorsports has no warranties except their engines now.

    You will have alot of questions to answer because you are trying to introduce a new product. Use this as a tool to guage interest.

    Good Luck
    Ken
    1992 Thunderbird SC
    13.322 @ 102.81
    1993 Thunderbird SC 5spd..white
    2002 F350 SD Diesel (SC tow vehicle)

  14. #14
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    When mine blow I would be looking for something durable like this. SC guys are the most nit-picky group as far as products go. You can offer a free item and they will still ask you what kind of shape its in and if you will ship if for free and warranty it. Maybe that comes from years of working on these things all the time? All in all, answering these questions will end up in a better product.

    My question is, If they were aware of the gasket issues this car has, why arent they tooling these up themselves, seems like money in the bank if they have a good product.

  15. #15
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    Agreed. I think they will sell plenty of gaskets if the price is reasonable. I don't have money coming out of every orifice ... but I will still pay extra for a better part. I don't like buying anything twice, much less doing twice the labor on an SC (frustration factor).
    God bless!!!

    1990 SC auto ... red outside, gray cloth inside ... ~205,000 miles (and climbing) ... driven daily!

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