Real Street Performance

kuhnga said:
Yeah this technical discussion crap on this bored is stupid, how dare you!

Can we please just post stuff about our last trip to the track and how fast we ran so everyone can see the greatness? Maybe we can have the manufacture start the thread and promote his product as the reason for the greatness as well.:rolleyes:
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ROFL!!!::D :D
 
I don't really understand the logic behind statements about one blower being better for the street vs track. If it's quicker and faster on the track, then it's going to be quicker and faster on the street too.

If you are saying that an S port blower will actually provide better performance on a motor that is never going to be revved past 5000 rpms, then yes I would agree. But that car is still going to be slower on the street than my belt slipping, high revving motor with a 24% overdriven MP III.

I think it's really a matter of matching the right blower to the engine and rest of drive train combo and to the car's intended use.

David

PS: I want it all...fast on the track and scary on the streets.
 
Jim Demmitt Jr said:
Well put Kevin!

Charles MP 111 has proven its self 11.30's what has the AR blower done? Nothing XR7 Dave is trying to push his AR blower even harder than ever why? tell us Dave? I think hands down and proven on the track and street Charles MP 2 & 3 is the best you can get for the 3.8 V6. Why fight when you can have the best MP 111 dont settle for less AR go with the best Magnum Powers we proved it so has Kevin in a much bigger way. Kevin I noticed after your numbers with the MP3 this post came up I know Charles knows how to build the best blower for 3.8V6 and the Lightning nothing is SUPERIOR

(Note) at Sacramento raceway on 11-19-05 I had a guy with a Lightning truck come up to me and say your Jim Demmitt with the 11 second SC. We are running so quick and big speed with our Lightning after MP built our new blower guess who this is? the fastest Ford Lightning Truck in the US

(Facts)
MP3 powerd the following
(Coy Miller) first into the 10's
(Jim Jr) 2nd SC ever into the 11's without Nitrous
(Kevin) Quickest and Fastest without Nitrous 11.30's soon to be in the 10's

Facts are facts with proven numbers to back the clame up so enough on this who is who as we know from on track and street performance results MP 3 the Leader in all blowers of today standerds in Performance for the 3.8V6
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Ow Jim qut sticking your nose sooo far up MPs and kevins rears!!! I can't tell where you you end and they begin!I am sick and tired of your double talk one second your saying MPs blowers are the best the next you are saying your dads is! You know I spoke with your dad a few times and he was a really awesome guy do yourself a favor and do not blemish what he has done for this community or the SC for that matter! You talk alot of smack but are unwilling to back any of it up so here I am laying it down to you right here right now. I have every mod in my sig you are hard pressed to share even a little of what you have but I am willing to make a wager that my AR equipped SC will not only beat yours on the dyno but at the track as well! No NOS no hidden power adders what you see is what we get. Its time to put up or shut up I am only a day away, you name the time and give me a heads up so i can take the time off work and I am there, but too make it worth my time since I have to miss work and drive to you I suggest a wager of a $1000 be put in the hands of someone we trust before I leave so if you are a no show I win by forfiet.

I know I may step on a few feet, hands, or what not but I was more than ticked off that just because I was running an AR at the shootout, and Dave can atest to this, I still won the stock longblock dyno war and by a landslide I was over 30 wheel hp over the next closest. So since everyone thinks that the MPIII is so much better than the AR then Y is everyone so afraid to put the guys that are running it in Mod1 or stock class?? So since there is no competition from it then I say that the rules should be changed so its an even playing field!

Randy ended up recieving the award and I think the world of Randy I spent most of my time there with Randy and his wife. They are the salt of the earth and i was not going to say this because Randy didn't want anyone to say anything but after installing the MPIII his #s went way down over the MPII, was it because of the leak, could be, but the car was running pretty good with a leak but hey I'm only speaking from what i saw in person.

Dave I'm sorry if I am speaking out of context but its time to clear the air someone needs to start giving respect where its due! Charles is an awesome innovator and deserves our graditude he makes excellent products and noone can argue that! Dave is a very competent guy that took an idea that noone else wanted to do and made it a reality hes got skills not only with our engines but he knows how to tune our cars to get the most out of them. Kevin is a huge asset to this community and has proven that we are capable of better than 11s without NOS and that a M90 can get us there! Coy Miller is on the forefront of us all and showed us what the SC could do! Jim Sr showed us that it could be duplicated and without a huge front mount or fancy parts. I think the world of all these guys and what they have done and continue to do for everyone, this community, and the SC. I hope that Charles will continue to refine and polish the M90 to get the best DARN eaton the world has ever seen! I hope that I see Kevin make it into the 10s by next summer, I hope and pray that Dave keeps being original and thinking outside the box and bringing us new and exciting products to keep increasing the envelope. I hope that Coy comes back out and gets reinvolved in the SC, and I hope that jim will come out and show to all of us that he can do more than ride the coattails of his late great father and continue to run the silver bullet into the deep 11s!
 
Paul93SC said:
I believe a distinction needs to be made between those who want all-out 1/4mi. track performance vs. those who want to build power for street use. Too often the almighty "peak" HP & torque numbers are thrown around as the final say in the matter, when in fact those are not nearly the whole story. This is what this thread is all about: useful power on the street.
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True, but as Charles said before, higher average HP wins races too! When I had the S-Port on the XR7 there were few cars that had better "all out 1/4 mile track performance."

There certainly may well be other factors influencing Dan's lower rpm torque numbers other than blower porting. In fact I am sure there are.

I think rotor coatings may be a key factor here. We know that even at high rpm coated rotors increase boost and power, but could it be that they are even more critical at low rpms? Remember neither the MPII nor MPIII's have coated rotors.
 
XR7 Dave said:
I think rotor coatings may be a key factor here. We know that even at high rpm coated rotors increase boost and power, but could it be that they are even more critical at low rpms? Remember neither the MPII nor MPIII's have coated rotors.
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I've been saying this for a while now! Hahahaha
 
its all apples and oranges like they said if they were tested on the same car then it would be a real test but as Dave said whos car and who will send all the blowers to one location to be tested.

so hers my plan I have a new engine all stock specs everyone send me their blowers and Ill test them here with the so cal crew , then Ill send back the ones that arenot the best and keep the good ones .

no really we need to do a shootout a sc built to stock spec,s we donate $ to the sccoa via a test mule car club owned, everyone donates some money.

then we get manufactures to donate a blower to test if they want to be in the shootout, bet a few will donate a blower to test.
we could get a sc for around $1000 and fix it up cheap then build a engine to stock specs and test the blowers then build the engine and test them on modified engine.

it could be done. Ill donate some $$$ hell if the club cant do this maybe we could get dave or another member to do this if we all donate $$$

but to say coys is best blower or daves AR is best its not just the blowers its the compleate setup of the car engine.


enuff from me hell I run a home made D shaped blower and plenum.

it makes 3,000 hp in my dreams. :D
 
Jim Sr showed us that it could be duplicated and without a huge front mount or fancy parts. I think the world of all these guys and what they have done and continue to do for everyone, this community, and the SC. I hope that Charles will continue to refine and polish the M90 to get the best DARN eaton the world has ever seen! I hope that I see Kevin make it into the 10s by next summer, I hope and pray that Dave keeps being original and thinking outside the box and bringing us new and exciting products to keep increasing the envelope. I hope that Coy comes back out and gets reinvolved in the SC, and I hope that jim will come out and show to all of us that he can do more than ride the coattails of his late great father and continue to run the silver bullet into the deep 11s![/QUOTE]


Now thats a big thunk on back of the head!


Thanks for the nice words of my Dad he did do what others said could not be done it sits after the 11.911et run with his ported M-90 blower. After seeing this all happen the last few years knowing the car can run quicker and faster like XR7 Dave put it there is no reason not to fix the trans and see where it may go. I just got to get over the feeling of the loss and push on I have respect for Charles and Dave for his AR setup "Fact we did do it with my Dads M-90" there is a lot to work with you can buy off the shelf MP3 or do it the hard way like we did porting your own. We could have used the front mount and all other trick stuff others had but my Dad was set on doing it the old shool way and it did work great. Charles did do the best he could when we tryed to get the Proto MP3 to work but we shelved it and built our own not bad 15% overdrive 19.5lbs of boost just think at 24% or more Dad was one smart person and he was hell bent on getting it into the 10's in the future
 
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XR7 Dave said:
True, but as Charles said before, higher average HP wins races too! When I had the S-Port on the XR7 there were few cars that had better "all out 1/4 mile track performance."

There certainly may well be other factors influencing Dan's lower rpm torque numbers other than blower porting. In fact I am sure there are.

I think rotor coatings may be a key factor here. We know that even at high rpm coated rotors increase boost and power, but could it be that they are even more critical at low rpms? Remember neither the MPII nor MPIII's have coated rotors.
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Good point Dave!

The one my Dad built the 11.911et M-90 the one on my car now he put coated rotters in it. He also added baffels in the intake plenum before going into the intake to direct the air to the center and in the IC tubes. just the little things work together

(Note) On the Coy Miller Cogged setup
That was our big step backwards stuck at only 15% overdrive we had no choice shredding belts with the Quick Change I know if we would have gone with the 10 rib it would have helped our other shredding setup was 20% overdrive
 
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boostedbird said:
The MPIII does not in any way shape for form look better than the new kit that Dave has made out of the AR. I installed mine in 3 hours and that included removing the old blower which took me all of 15 mins :D . I do agree with the avalibility and I know Dave is really busy and thats sucks but hey quality versus quanity! Now price, again how many times does it need to be reflected upon lets put this in list form for easier reading!

A/R kit $3000 to $3200 includes the following
"NEW" 1.7 autorotor twinscrew blower
Custom fabricated inlet
Custom fabricated crossover
"NEW" billet aluminum bypass valve
"NEW" SCT 4 position chip
moddifed lower intake
moddifed return plenum
"NEW" CNC aluminum nose brace
moddifed fuel rail
Choice of billet aluminum blower pulley
"NEW" quality blower belt
"NEW" billet aluminum jackshaft pulley in 5 or 10% overdrives
"NEW" oil vent canister
"NEW" aluminum adapter for top outlet ported for flow
24 hour customer support
free reburning of the chip
(Parts that have to be sent for the modding lower intake, return plenum and fuel rail)

OKay now the MPIII blower $1495 to $1800
Used rebuilt and moddifed M90 blower with your core or one you buy from them
"NEW" cast intake
(Parts supplied one used blower or pay the core charge)

No pulleys are supplied with the MPIII even though to get the most out of it you have to be overdriving it 20 or more % so its off to get a better JS pulley, blower pulley, or the new crank pulley and paying the cost for that and then you need the belt to match it as well and to get the most out of it you need to tune it which means a chip or EEC tuner. Price is not as big an issue as alot of people are making when you factor what you get and what you need.

Charles is an awesome guy and has alot of great ideas and products that cannot be argued with, but so does Dave. Noones doubting that your car is great i think your car is awesome but things that i keep seeing is, your car made if i am correct around 360 at the wheels at OK and mine made 308 at the wheels with a totally stock engine with 140 plus miles on it, thats only a 52 HP difference and you had a little more torque, but yours fell off quickly where mine looked like a fricken flat line all the way too 5200 with a max just shy of 400. Now that I have given the car heads and cam and the newly rebuilt engine the darn thing will be over 400HP or more at the wheels (won't know for sure till weds) :D Now make mine weigh the lightweight that yours is and give me your driving skills, which are GREAT!!!! and i will hit 10s guarenteed. Noones argueing the MPIII is good but theres alot more to getting good #s at the track than HP your driving skills for one, weight for another and last BBBBUUUUTTTT definitely not least is TRACTION!!!!!!!!!! You have all those things in spades. If I could drive at the track like I do on the street I'd be awesome but i choke at the track and spin the crap out of the tires, my bad.

So I will purpose this its winter here right now I have access to a nice new mustang dyno and I will pony up the cash if someone is willing to either come on down and be a witness and help me remove and install all the blowers and we will end the HP debate once and for all and I will rent the dyno all day and dyno back to back the S-port, AR, MPIII, MPII and a totally stock 89 blower and 94 blower. Once the track opens up again i will run them all at the track and we will see what happens then as well.
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1. At the dyno i experienced major belt slip on the dyno and let out of the throttle early and it was by no means anywhere dropping off I don't think torque ever dropped below 400 and hp was still on the climb when i got out of it.

2.my torque was way low since i didn't stand on it till around 4200, Hmm what would it have been at 3500?

3. And I have no traction, I don't know where you think i have it in spades, But the car should be pulling low 1.5 high 1.4 60's not horrible 1.68's spinning like hell.

4. I have ran the stock, S-port and the MagIII on the street and down the track and the MPIII Is the best so far. I even tried to convince Dave to put the AR on the car and if it showed improvement then i would buy it. I think that would have been great advertisement for him. But he did not want to do it. I will not say his exact words, because he is a good friend of mine and wish him no harm.

5 Dalke will even admit that I have major tuning issues. Once again I will not say who did the tune work.

6. I will say once again what would you rather have a 440 HP car than runs low 12's or a 360 HP car that runs low 11's

7. My driving skills has nothing to do with it, Any monkey can push the shifter when the bright light comes on.

8. I did say the AR is a great blower, but i really don't care if the thing makes 600 HP if it doesn't show it at the track, what good is it. Frankly i don't enjoy racing dyno sheets.

9. people are quick to point out what i do have, but not so quick on what i don't have, I have low buck heads, no welding, small cam, no elky injection, no tubular k members, no fiberglass doors, i could be a lot lighter. I think 3500 race weight is not all that good.

10. sorry, Even dave 's car at my weight won't hit 10's
 
David Neibert said:
I don't really understand the logic behind statements about one blower being better for the street vs track. If it's quicker and faster on the track, then it's going to be quicker and faster on the street too.
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I can understand your point here, however what qualifies as "street use" needs to be defined. Perhaps an example will better illustrate what I'm trying to say.

Lets compare my SC to my buddies Honda S-2000. His engine builds its power at high RPMs as opposed to my low RPM engine. When travelling on city streets I'm king; I absolutely destroy him from a dig or slow roll no matter how aggressively he drives it. On the highways (>60MPH) he is king. I cannot match his acceleration up there no matter how hard I try.

Considering I spend the majority of my time on city streets, I want as much torque as I can get where I spend the most time accelerating. This means the time my engine is producing power between 4500 to 5000 RPM is small compared to the time my engine is producing power below 4500 RPM. At higher speeds this changes; you can hang around longer at higher RPMs, and this is where high-revving engines excel.

David Neibert said:
If you are saying that an S port blower will actually provide better performance on a motor that is never going to be revved past 5000 rpms, then yes I would agree.
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This is EXACTLY what I'm trying to say. Most mildly-modded SC's (like mine) don't benefit much from RPMs higher than 5000. I probably couldn't use an MP3 to its full capability and the fear is that I'd lose power (in the process of over-driving it) right in the RPM range I spend most of my time.

David Neibert said:
I think it's really a matter of matching the right blower to the engine and rest of drive train combo and to the car's intended use.
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Couldn't agree more. That's what this whole thread is about :D
 
I know that this thread was not about the AR, But it did seem like it was about bashing the MPIII. If it were started by anybody else i would not have said a word. Both dave and charles make great blowers, I just think it is not good business to talk down on the competitor. That is why i got upset. i think it would be more valueable for each to brag their own equipment and not find faults on the others. Charles was fortunate enough to have someone with a race prepped car to test his MPIII. and he bragged the results. He has every right to. but untill i see even a mid 11 sec AR. I don't want to see MPIII bashing, Plain and simple.
 
Kevin Leitem said:
1. At the dyno i experienced major belt slip on the dyno and let out of the throttle early and it was by no means anywhere dropping off I don't think torque ever dropped below 400 and hp was still on the climb when i got out of it.

2.my torque was way low since i didn't stand on it till around 4200, Hmm what would it have been at 3500?

3. And I have no traction, I don't know where you think i have it in spades, But the car should be pulling low 1.5 high 1.4 60's not horrible 1.68's spinning like hell.

4. I have ran the stock, S-port and the MagIII on the street and down the track and the MPIII Is the best so far. I even tried to convince Dave to put the AR on the car and if it showed improvement then i would buy it. I think that would have been great advertisement for him. But he did not want to do it. I will not say his exact words, because he is a good friend of mine and wish him no harm.

5 Dalke will even admit that I have major tuning issues. Once again I will not say who did the tune work.

6. I will say once again what would you rather have a 440 HP car than runs low 12's or a 360 HP car that runs low 11's

7. My driving skills has nothing to do with it, Any monkey can push the shifter when the bright light comes on.

8. I did say the AR is a great blower, but i really don't care if the thing makes 600 HP if it doesn't show it at the track, what good is it. Frankly i don't enjoy racing dyno sheets.

9. people are quick to point out what i do have, but not so quick on what i don't have, I have low buck heads, no welding, small cam, no elky injection, no tubular k members, no fiberglass doors, i could be a lot lighter. I think 3500 race weight is not all that good.

10. sorry, Even dave 's car at my weight won't hit 10's
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OKay if you consider this a personal attack I'm sorry i was only going by what i see and what went on at the shootout. Did I know that you didn't get on it till 3500 or so? No I didn't know any problems you had cause you didn't say.

Anyway being a good driver has alot to do with running good you can play it down all you want but not anyone can shift it when the light blinks as you put it. Horrible 1.68s????? try 2.9s because I am having such a hard time getting off the line but I am working on that and if I was running the same 1.68s that you say are so horrible then I would be in the mid 11s too, each 10th off your 60 ft equates too 2 to 3 10ths off your 1/4. hell i'd be happy with 1.9s hahaha. Kevin you are a very good driver and you know it please don't try and play down the fact that driving skills are not required to run good 1/4 mile times. Otherwise anyone could go out and get paid tons of cash to run companys cars at the track for a living cause anyone can shift when the light blinks :rolleyes:!

If I would have known that you were willing to try the AR and see what it could do at the track i would have offered up mine its easy to remove and install, wish I would have known!! I know your torque didn't fall WAY off I simply said it spiked high and came down quit a bit from where it spiked too and fell where mine stayed flat I know your HP was climbing even when you let off I wasn't saying it didn't. I just wish everyone would stop the fighting and agree to disagree which is better who the heck knows I love the AR I have had my wife in my car 4 times and she rode in it when I had the MPII 15% overdriven coated rotors with the 75 shot of NOS and it scared her then I have taken her for a ride in my car now with the AR 5% overdriven no NOS and she even says its ALOT faster now. I know that I am beating cars that i never had a chance with before and were barely keeping up with when I would spray now i am destroying them!
 
Kevin, I field questions regularly from new owners of MPIII's who have not achieved the kind of results they expected from their blower purchase. People who will not post here on the website for whatever reason email me to ask what I think. I have answered them in private honestly and directly about what I have seen and what I have heard. None of this involves any product bashing.

I feel that a lot of people have been mislead MOSTLY by their intense desire to have a super mundo M90 for their SC's. People have grasped at any glimmer of hope that their little M90 can do amazing things without realizing what it takes to have that glamorous performance they are after.

What about the SC owner who has spent $10,000 on currently available performance parts only to languish at sub-300rwhp levels and their cars struggle to run in the 13's? There are more of these people out there than many would like to admit. What about these people?

I am encouraged to see people like Charles Brown simply and quietly running faster and faster with basic parts intelligently applied. In many cases we have been fools to run after some glorious HP number without looking at what is really going on and where the power is or isn't coming from.

You yourself Kevin are an excellent example of someone who didn't follow the "latest greatest" thing out there and stuck with what you knew until you knew that something was better. The "tune" or lack thereof on your car is an excellent example of that. I offered to tune your car at the SC Shootout. I offered to tune your car at Dragway 42 a couple weeks ago. I've offered to tune your car any number of times if you wanted. However, you felt that it would be best in all those cases to leave well enough alone and continue with what you had for the time being. It worked well for you and I don't suggest you should have done it any other way.

But the point is taken and I think the idea applies to other things as well. People are anxious to buy the latest greatest blower in hopes that it will net them some magic HP. My suggestion all along is that these people may or may not be ready for a blower upgrade just as you felt you weren't ready for any more tuning adventures.

Will the AR ever be a drop in replacement for the M90? No it won't.

Will the AR ever replace Magnum Powers? No it won't. But I don't understand why it is that those who like their M90's see it as "bashing" when the term "AR" is brought up. Frankly, as much as you are tired of M90 bashing posts, I'm tired of having to sidestep the issue entirely. I feel like I am forbidden to say things about the AR in public because if I do then it will turn into a bash fest in which case I invariably end up looking like the schmuck.

Has the AR proven itself on the dyno and in competition? Yes it has. Michelle Huffman ran 12.17 @ 112.5mph at the SC Shootout. This was in a full weight car with functional AC and only a double IC for aid charge cooling. This is in comparison to Mark Kovalcik's 12.26 @ 111.4mph for the MPIII in a full weight car with a massive air/water IC and alcohol injection.

My car put down 440rwhp on pump gas on the dyno. No M90 has even come close without the aid of nitrous.

Sure no one has run 11's with an AR on their car yet but they will and it may or may not even be one from me. I'm not the first to do it and I won't be the last, but one thing is certain. The twin screw is here to stay and some people better get used to it.


Ok, so back to the topic at hand. Am I splitting hairs about these blowers? I think Kevin would say yes. But then again I see Charles Brown running 102mph on his stock motor and OE blower and I have to ask if maybe we have been focusing too much attention on blowers and maybe we are missing something much more important.

Or are we just going to say that Charles has a freak and let it go at that?
 
Thanks Dave!

XR7 Dave said:
I'm not the first to do it and I won't be the last, but one thing is certain. The twin screw is here to stay and some people better get used to it.
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That needed to be said. Our cars are between ten and seventeen years old, and so we need all the help we can get for an aftermarket for these dinosaurs. ;)
 
put it. Horrible 1.68s????? try 2.9s because I am having such a hard time getting off the line but I am working on that and if I was running the same 1.68s that you say are so horrible then I would be in the mid 11s too, each 10th off your 60 ft equates too 2 to 3 10ths off your 1/4. hahaha.


If your car should 60' at a 1.9 and you are running 2.9 then all you will gain is 1 second not 3. because you have the same power all the way down the rest of the track, But if you gain horsepower to improve your 60' then yes you will usually double at the end. if i gain one tenth because i get better traction then all i will see is one tenth at the end. I am not trying to personally attack anybody here. And i am sorry if it looks this way
 
Kevin Leitem said:
put it. Horrible 1.68s????? try 2.9s because I am having such a hard time getting off the line but I am working on that and if I was running the same 1.68s that you say are so horrible then I would be in the mid 11s too, each 10th off your 60 ft equates too 2 to 3 10ths off your 1/4. hahaha.


If your car should 60' at a 1.9 and you are running 2.9 then all you will gain is 1 second not 3. because you have the same power all the way down the rest of the track, But if you gain horsepower to improve your 60' then yes you will usually double at the end. if i gain one tenth because i get better traction then all i will see is one tenth at the end. I am not trying to personally attack anybody here. And i am sorry if it looks this way
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Nothing but respect for you Kevin i just wanted to state that theres more than just thre MPIII that got you to where you are thats all, and if I gain a full second I will be happy as all heck! But I am also putting my bird on a diet this winter i will have it down too 3200 without me in it it will take some work but I will keep it looking good!
 
boostedbird said:
Nothing but respect for you Kevin i just wanted to state that theres more than just thre MPIII that got you to where you are thats all, and if I gain a full second I will be happy as all heck! But I am also putting my bird on a diet this winter i will have it down too 3200 without me in it it will take some work but I will keep it looking good!
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now thats the best way to make these things fast. It can be done, I am close to that number and i have a few more things to cut. FYI, bill evanhoff is working on a power steering delete kit.
 
All we need is a dyno chart of the AR to compare it to the MPIII. That will tell you the whole story. If the tq and hp curves look the same on an AR as the MPIII, but higher numbers, then end of story.

In any experience with drag racing, running a car off of torque is a joke. HP will ALWAYS be greater of an advantage than torque is. There's plenty of examples. I can't set the converter in my race car at peak torque because it won't fall out of a tree and becomes 5-7 tenths slower. Why do Pro stockers make 1400HP and 800lbtq and still run 6.60's? Not because of torque....

Case and point, the more power you can make at a higher rpm the faster/quicker your car will be.
 
XR7 Dave said:
Kevin, I field questions regularly from new owners of MPIII's who have not achieved the kind of results they expected from their blower purchase. People who will not post here on the website for whatever reason email me to ask what I think. I have answered them in private honestly and directly about what I have seen and what I have heard. None of this involves any product bashing.

I feel that a lot of people have been mislead MOSTLY by their intense desire to have a super mundo M90 for their SC's. People have grasped at any glimmer of hope that their little M90 can do amazing things without realizing what it takes to have that glamorous performance they are after.

What about the SC owner who has spent $10,000 on currently available performance parts only to languish at sub-300rwhp levels and their cars struggle to run in the 13's? There are more of these people out there than many would like to admit. What about these people?

I am encouraged to see people like Charles Brown simply and quietly running faster and faster with basic parts intelligently applied. In many cases we have been fools to run after some glorious HP number without looking at what is really going on and where the power is or isn't coming from.

You yourself Kevin are an excellent example of someone who didn't follow the "latest greatest" thing out there and stuck with what you knew until you knew that something was better. The "tune" or lack thereof on your car is an excellent example of that. I offered to tune your car at the SC Shootout. I offered to tune your car at Dragway 42 a couple weeks ago. I've offered to tune your car any number of times if you wanted. However, you felt that it would be best in all those cases to leave well enough alone and continue with what you had for the time being. It worked well for you and I don't suggest you should have done it any other way.

But the point is taken and I think the idea applies to other things as well. People are anxious to buy the latest greatest blower in hopes that it will net them some magic HP. My suggestion all along is that these people may or may not be ready for a blower upgrade just as you felt you weren't ready for any more tuning adventures.

Will the AR ever be a drop in replacement for the M90? No it won't.

Will the AR ever replace Magnum Powers? No it won't. But I don't understand why it is that those who like their M90's see it as "bashing" when the term "AR" is brought up. Frankly, as much as you are tired of M90 bashing posts, I'm tired of having to sidestep the issue entirely. I feel like I am forbidden to say things about the AR in public because if I do then it will turn into a bash fest in which case I invariably end up looking like the schmuck.

Has the AR proven itself on the dyno and in competition? Yes it has. Michelle Huffman ran 12.17 @ 112.5mph at the SC Shootout. This was in a full weight car with functional AC and only a double IC for aid charge cooling. This is in comparison to Mark Kovalcik's 12.26 @ 111.4mph for the MPIII in a full weight car with a massive air/water IC and alcohol injection.

My car put down 440rwhp on pump gas on the dyno. No M90 has even come close without the aid of nitrous.

Sure no one has run 11's with an AR on their car yet but they will and it may or may not even be one from me. I'm not the first to do it and I won't be the last, but one thing is certain. The twin screw is here to stay and some people better get used to it.


Ok, so back to the topic at hand. Am I splitting hairs about these blowers? I think Kevin would say yes. But then again I see Charles Brown running 102mph on his stock motor and OE blower and I have to ask if maybe we have been focusing too much attention on blowers and maybe we are missing something much more important.

Or are we just going to say that Charles has a freak and let it go at that?
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Dave, I know you want to help everyone, but if people are comming to you for questions about the MPIII then you should direct them to Charles, As far as i know Charles has not had many questions. If people are upset with what they have then maybe charles can make changes to his product.

Dave I am truely sorry for making this into a big debate here because you honestly try to help everyone, I would never want you to quit making the AR kits, competion is good for everybody, Plus Brandon and I couldn't tease you anymore!!! You are truely an outstanding guy and I apologize if i have upset you, I just felt i needed to speak up.
 
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