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Thread: Problem Not Cam Sensor..... Fuel Filter maybe?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    37

    Problem Not Cam Sensor..... Fuel Filter maybe?

    Ok, i posted a problem about my tach going nuts around 1000 RPMS and the car dying all of a sudden on me...
    The solution i gotfrom most of the replys was to change the cam sensor...
    I changed the cam sensor and nothing is new. Car still dies... 30 minutes+ later (like the first time) it starts up again, and drives (the short distance) home, just fine.

    Could it be a fuel filter? should i just take the SC to Ford and bend over?

    Any help at all is apreciated. Thanks!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Canton (Atlanta area) GA
    Posts
    1,090

    Lightbulb A few ideas......

    Some of the things to check when your SC is stumbling.....
    Start with the fundamentals

    Plugs and wires
    use Motorcraft or Autolite Double Platinum ONLY. use high quality low resistance wires. Check wires for burn-through pin holes (keep the wires away from the exhaust manifolds)

    Vacuum leaks
    a can of propane sprayed on vacuum connections with engine idling (at normal operating temp) will reveal leaks. Engine RPM's will rev-up if propane is sprayed on a leaking connection.

    DIS Module
    Intermittent failure can be due to heat. Early model SC's use the AC bracket as mounting base. Apply new "heat sink compound" between DIS and bracket. (available at radioshack).

    Cam and Crank sensors
    your SC will crank without the cam sensor, but it will run like s**t.
    your SC will not crank without a crank sensor, and if the crank sensor fails while the SC is running, the engine shuts down. (if the engine dies suddenly, try to restart it. If the upshift indicator arrow on the instrument panel stays lit while cranking, the crank sensor has failed.

    Probably the best investment you can make is in a fault code reader.
    If possible, do the work yourself. If you swap parts/modules and that doesn't fix the problem, at least you have spares if you can't take them back. The dealership will swap parts all day long (at your expense) and you will never really know if the parts were bad or not.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    San Diego, California
    Posts
    47

    I had the same problem!!!

    Hey man, if your car is a 94 or older SC, then go to autozone and get the code puller there. It costs about $30 and it's really worth it. But anyways, I had the same problem as you. I ran the code, and it turned out that my MAF sensor was being blocked by a feather, of all things. If I were you, I'd go under the hood, disconnect the MAF, then get a size 20 tamper-proof torx bit and disconnect the sensor from the housing. Then look at the wires and see if anything is stuck to them. Also, I guess you can clean it with a spray or two of windex. Check out the TCCoA site, as they have a how-to on doing this.

    Good luck,

    Steve

  4. #4
    It could be the fuel filter, my car was recently occasionally stalling randomly and had a hard time starting. Turns out the fuel filter was plugged. Any decent mechanic should be able to change it easily. Including diagnosing the problem, it cost me $40 labor and $18 parts from my local mechanic.

    Travis

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Waterloo, Il
    Posts
    68
    i have the same problem now in my 89. i replaced the fuel filter, dis module, and coil pack. still dies. most likely goin to replace cam sensor unless problem is definetly found. good luck though

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    edmonton ,ab
    Posts
    77
    I had the same problem.Fuel pump was not putting out enough pressue. My car would die and restart later and run fine at low speeds.

  7. #7
    The only problem with all the above mentioned problems and solutions is NONE of them will make the tach jump around wildly as he described! You have an ignition problem NOT fuel filters or MAF problems. The tach is jumping around because you have LOST SPOUT SIGNAL! Completely check out the ignition system, all sensors and connections. The cam sensor you bought could be defective! I can not count the times I've bought new parts only to have a brand new defective part.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Dayton, OH
    Posts
    66
    That heat sink mod sounds like a good idea, thanks man.

    j.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    31
    Can't stress how important to check the codes. You can guess wrong three times and waste more money than the cost of a cheap scanner. If you have a dealer rape you, sorrry I meant help you, the labor for the wrong parts will buy you a good scanner.

    Spend $15-25 for the chilton's manual and get a paper clip and it will tell you how to get the codes (and a little on what they mean) for free (assuming you steal the paper clip!

    Put the codes up here on the tech site and you can get "smart" advice, not guesses like the dealer "chooses" to do!

    The guessing is good though, cause it teaches some of us the less common failures.

    Note: Son's 89 recently had fail codes for the Cam Sensor, EGR valve and knock sensor. Popped the hood and found slick 50 blown all over under the hood from an "accident" when he put the junk in. The Cam Sensor & the Knock sensor were shorted out by the slick 50 and the hose had fallen off the control for the EGR. Total cost, .5 manhours from dad, about 6-7 squirts from a can of electrical contact cleaner & .1 manhours from little brother (small hands) to put the hose back on right.

    Rock

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    37
    Rock is right!
    I recently got a Ford Code Tester...
    So I got the Code Tester and rand the codes and came up with a 211 - Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP) Circut Fault.
    What does this mean? is thisCircut fault causing my car problems (I assume so as nothing else is wrong)? any ideas as to what i need to do to fix this problem?
    Let me know what you think.

    Any help at all would be great. Thanks!!
    -Aaron Pierre

  11. #11
    As I said earlier you have lost the spout signal. That is another name for PIP! The cam sensor plays the biggest role in that. However you can lose the signal many ways, thats why I told you to check ALL of the ignition circuites! Every connection to the sensors and ALL sensors involved. If ALL of the wiring checks out as good then there are only 2 things that will cause the tach to do as you describe. The cam sensor!(your new one could be bad) or your DIS module! Does your car ever start bucking wildly while your driving down the road? Do you ever have a hard start problem that seems like the timing of the engine is advanced too far and the engine does not want to turn over very well?
    Last edited by MIKE 38sc; 08-03-2002 at 02:40 PM.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    5,648
    Aaron. If you suspect even the new cam sensor may be bad, I have a spare which you can borrow to check it out. MHO is this though, a bad part will usually show up as bad right away.. You won't have identical behavior. If your car is behaving the same as it was, I doubt that your new cam sensor is the cause of it.

    I'd disconnect/reconnect wiring under the hood related to the sensors, then inside the car. The EEC and hookups are behind 2 kick panels on the passengerside. The outer panel is the dress panel, the inner panel is padded for noise. About 20 connectors are behind that, one of which is the cam sensor. I'd unplug/replug every one of them just to be sure it isn't a bad connector.
    The PCM module is behind the glovebox door to the left. You have to drop the glove box down by pushing in on the sides. then it will be visible. Its a ~~~~ since its a knuckle scraper, but its worth a try.

    I don't have a spare DIS/ICM, but I noticed partsamerica.com had them for around $100something.
    Good luck.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    31
    Aaron
    Code 211 would lead me to the Crank Sensor circuit.

    Make sure the connectors at the DIS module and the gray connector to the right & back from the DIS (Left side of the super charger) are not wet, dirty or loose.

    The below is what I would do for a hard failure. An intermitant is more difficult. Try to do it when it is failed if you can.
    PLEASE BE SAFE HERE. MAKE SURE NOTHING/NO ONE GETS CAUGHT IN THE BELTS ETC.

    If you have a voltmeter, you can back probe (use paperclip) the blue wire with orange stripe on the left side of the DIS (I think left, it is blue with orange stripe for sure) With the key on you will read either low or high (0 or over 5 VDC) initially. Have someone bump the starter and you should see it jump between low & high. If you see nothing make sure that you really have the paperclip in making contact. You can pull the connector and use the meter in ohms function to verify the paperclip is making contact. (you probably could read the signal with the connector off and just read from the pin inside the connector, but I have never tried that)

    If nothing happens at all, try to find the 4 wires going down to the Crank sensor and verify that the red with light green stripe wire has 12 VDC on it when the ignition is on. (Not running & make sure no one can bump the ignition when you are in there!) There is a return wire that runs up to the other connector on the DIS (Light Blue) also.
    If you've got voltage and are not getting the signal at the DIS, replace the sensor. If you don't have voltage fix the nasty rotten wiring Ford blessed you with.

    If it checks good at the DIS it still could be the DB wire running from the sensor through the gray connector to pin 56 on the ECU.

    Good luck
    Rock

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    SW Oklahoma
    Posts
    70
    Aaron,
    I had a simular problem with an 1984 Cougar. It ended up being a bad oil seal on the distributor shaft. The distributor would fill with oil, die. Then about a half hour later start right up, once the oil drained back down. Is it possible your ignition saft is doing the same thing?? Just trying to help.

  15. #15
    Originally posted by Lewis
    Aaron,
    I had a simular problem with an 1984 Cougar. It ended up being a bad oil seal on the distributor shaft. The distributor would fill with oil, die. Then about a half hour later start right up, once the oil drained back down. Is it possible your ignition saft is doing the same thing?? Just trying to help.
    No. Thats not the problem.

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