T56 Install

This has been talked about quite a bit. Here is a thread over on TCCoA that has a image of the M5R2 trans and dimensions.
http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?t=55283

Note that the future of manual transmissions is going to be the dual clutch transmissions. Their quite cool, and once they get rolling, their torque capacity should be quite nice.
 
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For certain, the ones out of the Firebird and such from GM are not strong enough for our cars if pushing over 300lb/ft of torque.

I don't know where these ideas come from. Stock LT1's made over 300ftlbs torque. The transmissions being referred to here might not stand up to 5500rpm clutch dumps, but neither will your axles. I would have no reservations about putting one in my car. They are stronger than an M5R2.
 
I know for sure that it will fit as I have ridden in a 91 T-bird with a T-56. There is a guy that doesn't post much on any MN12 based forums that lives in Rome, GA that converted his 5.0 car to a hydraulic setup T-5, then turned around a couple years later and put in the T-56. The car is wicked as hell too as it has a 331 twin turbo setup to go with the 6 speed. I could ask him to do a writeup about the conversion....

I'd love to hear more about this car. BTW are you talking about Wes ?

David
 
I don't know where these ideas come from. Stock LT1's made over 300ftlbs torque. The transmissions being referred to here might not stand up to 5500rpm clutch dumps, but neither will your axles. I would have no reservations about putting one in my car. They are stronger than an M5R2.

Typical torque ratings for the T-56 pulled out of a oem car are 400-450 lb/ft. Viper ratings are 550lb/ft. If I go through the trouble to put a t-56 in my car, I'm not going to have much stock about the rest of my drivetrain. I guess I shouldn't assume the same of others.

Viper transmissions have unique spline counts. 26 on the input 30 on the output. Fbody's have 26 on the input, but 27 on the output. Fords have 10 on the input and 31 on the output.

It's a very doable swap if someone has the time and a transmission.
 
t-56 pics

here are some pic of the eng/belh/trans plus some
 

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more t56

here are some parts/boxes with P/Ns
 

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notes

did some measuring last night after work.
the center of the shifter on the t56 is maybe a little under an inch forward of the m5r2.

The trans looks to be about an inch shorter, but the trans mount is farther back 1-1 1/2".

The splined portion of pilot shaft goes into the crank pilot cavity about 1/4" maybe a tad more. (maybe a weld up and turn down to ford spec for some industrious person?)

Don't have an in the car fit up yet, have to call the machine shop to get pricing for work on engine.

Until the engine goes away for work I going to use it to fit as much as I can.
MikeH
 
more notes

Was looking through a bunch of downloads and printouts here are a couple of tid bits.
Here are the McLeod parts recommended by Billy M (Tech advisor @ McLeod)
260571 is a 26 spline 11" disc for the LS1 T-56.

361954 P/P (going to use the Sach's I have <2000 miles)

P20810 Pressure Plate Shim.

No you do not need to change your slave. (changed same time as P/P)

Haven't found anyone with the shim or any info about it.
This may actually be easier than it sounds?
MikeH
 
Trying to understand your notes.
The input shaft is too long where the pilot bearing is or is the spline part too bid and push/hit the pilot bearing.

I am also not following what clutch components you are going to use, are you using a LS1 T-56 clutch/pp with a 26 spline disc. And a stock LS1 slave or the stock SC slave?



Was looking through a bunch of downloads and printouts here are a couple of tid bits.
Here are the McLeod parts recommended by Billy M (Tech advisor @ McLeod)
260571 is a 26 spline 11" disc for the LS1 T-56.

361954 P/P (going to use the Sach's I have <2000 miles)

P20810 Pressure Plate Shim.

No you do not need to change your slave. (changed same time as P/P)

Haven't found anyone with the shim or any info about it.
This may actually be easier than it sounds?
MikeH
 
Rico. The setup I saw on an SC and I wish I could remeber who did it used a 4.6 flywheel clutch and starter. The appropriete splined disc was used. I assume they are rather generic..A 10.5 is a 10.5..Only spline count changes.

I just cant recall what slave setup was used. Othe rthen that its not so bad to do so it seems..The pilot bearing/bushing used in the swap I saw was custom made..Perhaps youll find info on tccoa

And here is from our very own scoa

http://sccoa.com/sccoo/Faq/6speedsc.htm
 
Clarification........(hopefully)

T-56 Swap into 1993 SC (originally w/M5R2)
1993 3.8 SC engine w/138K (under a minor rebuild)
2000 LS1 Camaro T-56 6 speed trans
McLeod Belhousing Kit 8750-06(SBF/LS1 adaption)
Original Ford flywheel
McLeod Clutch disk 260571 1-1/8"x26spline (with a reverse button)
Sach's (OEM replacement SC w/M5R2) Pressure plate and slave
Hurst Billit Plus shifter (2000 Cam., no knob yet, probally mod the stick any way)


The pilot shaft goes in deep to the recess of crank (splines do not restrict) only about 1/4" of splines go in. (if this was going into a Hi HP setup AND I had the $$ might have a custom input shaft done with the pilot end made to fit the M5R2 pilot bearing vs using the bushing that is not very thick (maybe 3/8") (i.e. if I ever get to do a BBF/T56(LS1)-Bird -McLeod belhousing P/N 8746-06)

Measurements indicate the shifter is about 1" forward of stock position and the trans mount is about 1" farther back than stock. Also that the end of the output shaft is about 1" maybe a tad more towards the front (therefore needing a longer driveshaft)

Hope this is a little clearer.
MikeH
 
Since you have it apart, I would highly recommend some modeling clay and verifying dimensions. if possible, hook up your clutch master cylinder with the slave as well. then check all the dimensions, use the clay to check how far the pilot goes in.

Verify the alignment dowels will get your bell housing properly centered. No guarantee that it comes from perfect and it is very important that the input shaft is centered in the pilot bearing and lines up the clutch disk.

I think this link will tell you what I mean
http://circletrack.automotive.com/60221/ctrp-0404-bellhousing-alignment/index.html
 
T-56 Swap into 1993 SC (originally w/M5R2)
1993 3.8 SC engine w/138K (under a minor rebuild)
2000 LS1 Camaro T-56 6 speed trans
McLeod Belhousing Kit 8750-06(SBF/LS1 adaption)
Original Ford flywheel
McLeod Clutch disk 260571 1-1/8"x26spline (with a reverse button)
Sach's (OEM replacement SC w/M5R2) Pressure plate and slave
Hurst Billit Plus shifter (2000 Cam., no knob yet, probally mod the stick any way)


The pilot shaft goes in deep to the recess of crank (splines do not restrict) only about 1/4" of splines go in. (if this was going into a Hi HP setup AND I had the $$ might have a custom input shaft done with the pilot end made to fit the M5R2 pilot bearing vs using the bushing that is not very thick (maybe 3/8") (i.e. if I ever get to do a BBF/T56(LS1)-Bird -McLeod belhousing P/N 8746-06)

Measurements indicate the shifter is about 1" forward of stock position and the trans mount is about 1" farther back than stock. Also that the end of the output shaft is about 1" maybe a tad more towards the front (therefore needing a longer driveshaft)

Hope this is a little clearer.
MikeH



You are making it seem very easy.

How does the SC slave bolt on to the tranny? Does it mount up no problems?
 
funny you should ask.......

Went out take some detail measurements (for the map) got a million measurements, then unbolted the slave from the 5 spd. and tried to slip it over the inpyt shaft on the '56..... no go! The splines on the '56 are larger than the input shaft.
splines:1-1/8"
shaft:1.0"
slave id:1.063"

I think that "Billy M" over at McLeod doesn't research enough or hurries too much and doesent get everything. Gonna shoot him a line.

Well, gotta go it's family night.

MikeH
 
centering

Time for one last post before the movie starts.
Read the article on centering........But that method won't work as there is no round hole to align. The front of the T-56 is open and not round at all, and neither is the opening in the B-H see photo.
Good idea though, maybe I'll ask at the machine shop when I go to get prices.
 

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So its safe to say that here comes the hard part, you might have to switch to an external slave to make it work. I wonder if the MCleod BellHous has provisions for the Chevy slave system.
 
fbody's were available with an internal slave I believe. Depended on the engine? Check with McLeod. Getting all the alignment and dimensions worked out is gonna be the real pain. Take your time as nothing is worse than getting it all buttoned up and the trans won't shift because something is hanging up somewhere.

http://www.impalassforum.com/vBulletin/showthread.php?t=100037
For the slave and throwout bearing McLeod makes a slip-on/over-the-snout slave actuator with integral throwout bearing. This slave literally slips over the T56 input shaft and remains sandwiched between the pressure plate and transmission (read: no throw out fork required) within the bell housing. It also incorporates a bleed line for system bleeding (I'll bet this got your attention) and an internal adjustment collar which is used to move the slave closer to the pressure plate if needed. The slave is all metal, and rebuildable (o-rings). The actual throwout bearing also slips onto the slave cylinder and it too is replaceable. This slave has a stoke of ~ 0.650"; you need about 0.250" to release a clutch disk.
 
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