XxSlowpokexX
Registered User
I figured we could start a turbo thread here where we can all just spill out our thoughts without hijacking threads. Lets see how this works:O)
CMac89 said:If you want to go drag racing then stick with the positive displacement blower. If you want to go road racing then go turbo or centrifugal.
Doesn't mean you can't make turbo cars fast, but how do you know that a positive displacement blower of the same CFM capabilities won't be better.Parker Dean said:Tell that to the Grand National crowd.
xThunderbirdSCx said:if this kid doing his turbo setup pulls through and makes some good numbers, i know where ill be headed (to a turbo)
XR7 Dave said:You guys crack me up. To begin a successful turbo application you must first master some basic engine building theory and tuning procedures not to mention some fairly in depth installation and fabrication abilities. No offence to anyone here but most of you really have no idea what you are talking about.
You want to run a turbo? Then get yourself some engine tuning software/hardware and a WB02 meter and start tuning. When you have a good handle on how to manipulate your EEC with the M90 on it then you are ready to start talking about upgrading to a turbo. Ask anyone who has run a turbo on their SC how they did with tuning it. Oh ya, no one has done it yet.
Sure you can take the car and get it tuned somewhere but unless you want to pay $450 every so often to compensate for a little change here or there, having someone tune the car for you is NOT a practical solution. Look at any of the successful turbo cars and find out how they handle tuning.
1) They pay someone a lot of money to get it right.
2) They learn how to do it themselves.
The problem with a turbo application is that your results, the turbo, the motor, and the tune are all interconnected and you can't seperate them. There is a whole learning curve that will need to come with the application of turbo's to the SC which has yet to be explored.
And don't tell me that is what I'm here for. I dont' mind helping anyone who wants help but I'm not about to take responsibility for the success or failure of anyone's turbo project. I'm not trying to get off track here but I have noticed a real trend with SC owners that they want to bolt things on and go fast but extremely few have taken on the responsibility to learn how to tune their own cars. This is something that I feel really needs to happen if anyone is serious about performance.
I learned this the hard with with the AR kits. These were basically bolt on kits with all the same basic characteristics of the M90. They are really easy to tune. However, because the blower by virtue of it's boost capability requires bigger injectors and less ignition timing than a typical M90, I included a chip with each kit to accomplish these necessary changes. I thought I was providing a service. Boy was I wrong. As soon as I provided a chip with those changes, suddenly I was responsible for any and all reasons why the car didn't run. When the end user doesn't understand or have the ability to manipulate the program then there is a never-ending cycle of "it won't run" and "something's wrong". Been there done that and not going that direction any more! The only AR's that performed to expectations are ones that I tuned hands on. Think about that for a moment. I think you'll find the same thing with a turbo only possibly to a higher degree. If you can't tune it then don't even think about it (well, unless you plan to send the car to someone and have it delivered back to you turn-key). Notice the $7K price tag on Ralph's Vortec kit before you think you want to go that route.
Ask Chris Lazzo or David Neibert how much fun their turbo kits have been so far. They paid similar price tags for their kits. I'm not negative about turbo's, but I think I'm being realistic when I say that only someone who has the fabrication capabilities and tuning knowledge/hardware to put the whole thing together should even consider it.
A kit is hardly a decent option either. If someone goes through the effort to put together a kit that you install at home, who is going to get it running for you? 8 out of 10 says it won't run right out of the box. So how is company "A" going to market a kit when they can't guarantee that it is going to even run? I would have thought that it wouldn't be that hard, but so far my simple bolt on AR kit is running a pretty low % rate of delivered to running well ratio. Think about that. I can see it now. $5k turbo kit with a 10% running ratio. Boy that would be some bad press to overcome!
Ask Chris Lazzo or David Neibert how much fun their turbo kits have been so far.
So how is company "A" going to market a kit when they can't guarantee that it is going to even run? I would have thought that it wouldn't be that hard, but so far my simple bolt on AR kit is running a pretty low % rate of delivered to running well ratio.
The Supercharged Pro Mod cars are making 2600HP with 550CI and the turbo Pro Mod cars are making 3100HP. At the exact same weight tell me why the Supercharged cars are running 6.00's and the fastest of the many turbo cars are running 6.20's still.