I need some info/advice on rebuild

charged92

Registered User
I finally finished stripping my spare block, and it will be going to get tanked, and magnafluxed. The crank will get checked for cracks as well, and it looks like I will have to have it turned. Nothing major, but there are a few "lines" in a couple journals. The inside looked surprisingly good considering I think Josh said there was around 200000k on it.


While I have the engine apart for rebuilding should I change the timing chain, and water pump? I'm guessing the part under the timing chain cover (besides the chain itself) is called a tensioner (please correct me if I'm wrong). I noticed a small amount of wear on the two plastic "runners" for lack of proper name on this part. Are these still available and if so does anyone have a part #?

I am sticking with the stock rods and pistons as I have read they should be fine at 300-325 rwhp (which is my goal here) The rods will be shot peened and polished though.

Does anyone recommend an aftermarket oil pump or is the OE pump ok?

I had a few things to ask, but now that I'm in front of the computer, do you think I can remember them?:rolleyes:

Anyway any tips or recommendations you have, throw them at me. This is my first SC rebuild, and I want to do it right.

Thanks in advance and when the other things come to mind I'll post them.:D
 
Dean,
I will do my best.
For an oil pump get the melling m246 It's the 94-95 pump so it's an upgrade.
As for the timing chain all the parts you need for this ford still stocks (As of last year they did) There is a part number for each gear and the chain and the tensioner (Yes thats what it is called) I can dig the part numbers up I still have my bill.

Are you going to but a cam in this motor I know it's hard to get much over 300 rwhp with out one? If you do then you will need new lifters as well.

Are you going to balance this motor after you have the crank turned down and all other parts ready? One thing to rember is I think there is only a set of bearings for the crank thats .010 Under size so you need to hope not much needs to be removed.

One other thing to ask is there any reason your kepting the stock pistons?
 
Dean,

I'm told you should never cut an SC crank any more than 0.010". If you do, there is a great likelihood it will snap shortly after reinstallation in the car! :eek:

I would suggest you take a serious look at putting at least a mild camshaft in the car. Also, a set of well ported heads would really help.

...If you're shooting for the 300 to 325 RWHP mark, these sorts of things should really support getting you there. There is a long list of bolt-ons that you'll need also, or you could just buy an AR kit from SuperCoupes Unlimited and be done with it.

The stock pistons and rods are plenty strong for that kind of power level, but if you want added insurance, you could consider some aftermarket pistons, especially if you ever think you might throw a little nitrous into the mix.

Cheers,

Sean
 
Jason,
Thanks for the info on the oil pump. Do you think I need to change the timing gears? I was considering the chain, and I am changing the tensioner, as it only makes sense while it is apart.

As Sean said below I feel the stock rods and pistons are sufficient for the power levels I am looking for.

I am replacing the balancer with a BHJ which are zero balanced correct? I thought balancing the rotating assembly was a must do when using one. I did plan on having it done regardless.

I have been searching the forums for info on turning the crank, and from what I have read, and as Sean mentioned .010 under is as far as I would go. My concern was the rear main journal that is already .010 under from the factory. In looking at the mains, I will probrably be able to get away with a polish. I read a couple threads that stated the rear main should not be machined! What the hell are you supposed to do when rebuilding? Do you have to get a new crank every time?

Sean,

Trust me when I say I already own most of the long list of bolt ons I need for this. My car sat for almost three years, but I was buying while it sat!;) My only regret so far was last winter I had a deal made for a late model blower, and I got some crappy news as far as work goes and I backed out. After calming down and giving it some thought I wished I hadn't! Needless to say I am still searching.

I do plan on a cam and getting heads done. My neighbour has a guy in Windsor do his race heads for him and he said he would put me in touch with him when I was ready.

As far as nos goes, probrably not. I am not looking for the fastest SC title or anything, I just want a little more hp than your average SC (or Mustang for that matter) and a great looking ride to put it in.

Thanks for the help guys, I appreciate, and will use any input I get.
 
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Dean,

Sounds good, man!

In regards to the timing chain, sprockets and tensioner. I believe all of this stuff is still available from Ford, and I would recommend you replace it all with your rebuild. As Jason mentioned, I recommend the Melling high-volume oil pump too.

If you're getting the heads done, pay attention to the surface finish on them and the block (mating surfaces). If you do a search, you'll find information regarding what's required to allow you to run the multi-layer steel head gaskets (MLS). I would also recommend that if your budget allows for it, you use at least ARP head studs, and preferably ARP fasteners for the mains and rods.

Balancing is really important for longevity. Dave Dalke built my mill to survive at 6,500 RPM. I haven't had the balls to take it there to find out, but I will tell you that I've taken it to 6,000 RPM a few times recently, and she's still smooth as silk and pulling. I really need to get an aftermarket boost gauge installed so I know whether I've really topped 15 psi. ...And no signs of detonation, thank God!

I enjoy driving the car more now than I ever have, and I'm sure you'll feel the same way especially after putting a well-built motor under the hood of your beautiful looking SC!!!

Cheers,

Sean
 
Dean I would do the gears as well there not that much and mine were showing ware at under 180 000 km.

If you would like to run a Main Stud Girdle let me know this is a part i'm making my self and there are two SC running them right now with a 3 one on the way. One found it's way in to Sean's motor. Not sure what you time line is on your motor build if it's sometime I can make one for you as well.
 
Jason Wild said:
Dean I would do the gears as well there not that much and mine were showing ware at under 180 000 km.

If you would like to run a Main Stud Girdle let me know this is a part i'm making my self and there are two SC running them right now with a 3 one on the way. One found it's way in to Sean's motor. Not sure what you time line is on your motor build if it's sometime I can make one for you as well.

Well I am going to start working on this hopefully on a regular basis now and over the winter. As you know Stephanie sometimes dictates our schedules around here, but I would like to be pretty much done for sometime next season if all goes well. I have been checking out different stud girdles (not many out there) Will it be a bolt in or will it require machining as some I've seen do? Pm me a price and info if you don't mind.
 
when rebuilding i have a set of sealed power 20 over pistons for sale if needed. contact me if your interested.
John
 
Jason Wild said:
One thing to rember is I think there is only a set of bearings for the crank thats .010 Under size so you need to hope not much needs to be removed.
Not that I'm questioning your knowledge or anything but is that for sure? Isn't that usually the minimum they skim off if you have to turn the journals on a crank? Doesn't that make you wonder about the crank's strength. Typical bearing oversizes go up to .030 for most engines.
 
Dean,
Yes we can talk about that in a PM or email.
I see where my info was off I was thinking main bearings I think thats where there is only 2 size of bearings avalable. I could be worn but I rember reading it.
 
Jason Wild said:
Dean,
Yes we can talk about that in a PM or email.
I see where my info was off I was thinking main bearings I think thats where there is only 2 size of bearings avalable. I could be worn but I rember reading it.

Sounds good Jason. I have searched the board for two nights and I can't find a lot about it. What I have found states the same thing you said, that you shouldn't go more then .010 over. Sean even said the same thing above. I'm no engine builder by any means, but that just sounds odd.

Maybe we can hook up on msn later.
 
Found this in a thread from 2004. So there is my answer to that I guess. If ya can't trust Dave D., who can you trust?

XR7 Dave said:
Ford shop manual states that the crank CANNOT be turned more the .020.

Now on with the show.:D
 
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Well Dean if your sticking with stock rods .... you should replace the rod bolts and nuts ...I recall one of the mains ... is or was turned down ..... so it won't fit in a NA 3.8 block ..and can't be turned anymore...yes you should replace timing set not just the chain ...you want it to scream replace chain with a gear set ...they make alot of noise ...and draw alot of attention ....I have 2 spare cranks if you run into trouble and some software if you still want it ....dave
 
MercsSC said:
Well Dean if your sticking with stock rods .... you should replace the rod bolts and nuts ...I recall one of the mains ... is or was turned down ..... so it won't fit in a NA 3.8 block ..and can't be turned anymore...yes you should replace timing set not just the chain ...you want it to scream replace chain with a gear set ...they make alot of noise ...and draw alot of attention ....I have 2 spare cranks if you run into trouble and some software if you still want it ....dave
So you are saying the rear main can't be turned down too? This makes no sense to me. Can anyone say V8!!
Dave, I SO WANT THAT SOFTWARE!! I'll PM you my phone #. I'm off this week:rolleyes: so it would be a good week to get together if possible.
 
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I got this from the Ford manual
Journal refinishing
Caution: 3.8l v6 crankshaft incorportes deep rolling of the main journal fillets. journal refinishing is limited to .25mm or .010 inch. any more may result in fatigue and failure of the crankshaft. do not refinish the rear of the crankshaft on a supercharged motor as it's all ready undersized.
 
Just dropped the block, and crank off at the machine shop today. He is going to hot tank it, magnaflux, new frost plugs, new cam bearings, and hone the cylinder walls. Basically send me home with a new block in a bag.

Terry ( the machinist) said the crank isn't too bad and turning won't be a problem. That's going to cost me about $100 for that. He knew about the rear main being .010 under and all that so I felt it was left in capable hands. This guy comes highly recommended by the guys in OFOC that I hang with here in London and he has done machine work for most of if not all of them.

I need to get a flexplate for him to balance the rotating assembly as this motor was origionally out of a 5 speed SC. Ford still have em, or does anyone know another source?
 
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