The Hurricane engine is out...The Boss is in.

The *428 is a pig* statement is too tasty to ignore.

I once owned a factory stock 1970 Galaxie ex-cop (read:pig) car, equipped with a factory original high-compression 428 FE solid lifter police motor and a C6 (and a 140 MPH speedo) -- added a bit of Detroit Locker equipped gears out back, a slippy converter and shift kit, Hedman headers and a few other motor and chassis tweaks (disconnected the cop-sized anti-roll bars when drag racing, right-rear air shock had more air than left-rear, etc.), and OWNED the local door-slammer street racing category -- this was in the early-mid 1970s -- run-what-ya-brung -- used to get the strangest looks from the A-body GM guys (Chevelles and GTOs, mainly) when they would line up -- after all, it was NO FUN to get dusted by a big four-door ex-pig car -- that 428 engine was a GREAT street brawler motor, particularly for motivating that heavy bodied Galaxie -- useful, 100% tractable, fat lower RPM torque curve that was very easy to get hooked up and GONE.

Power-braked to 3K, side-stepped the brake and stomped the gas -- tires would turn a few times at most -- everything was straight ahead performance -- could daylight the left-front wheel on occasion.

Owned a 71 Buick GS-455 convertible, also (equipped with several aftermarket motor mods and a 1970 high-compression motor) -- WHAT a TORQUE beast -- NEVER lost a stoplight race -- it ATE smallblocks with impunity (when it wasn't breaking rear axles and trannys) -- buddy owned a 1970 W30 442 Olds convertible -- tweaked, but all stock, including exhaust -- would run mid 13s all day on street tires -- also ate small-blocks alive -- another buddy owned a warmed-up 69 GTX 440 4-speed with 3.91s -- low 13's on street tires -- an EASY high 12-second stock street car, with slicks.

And THEN there was my 1963 Pontiac Catalina convertible 421 with a factory BW T-10 4-speed stick tranny and 4.56 posi rear -- challengers, particularly of the *small* block ilk, regularly saw ACRES of red paint going rapidly past them . . .

CarlisleLandOwn -- you have NO idea what you are talking about, IMHO -- during the late 1960s to mid 1970s, where we lived (NoVa) small blocks did NOT rule the streets -- they COWERED at the mere sound of their approaching big-block brethren.

FACT.

Cammer

P.S. -- forgot to mention the side-oiler Ford 427 FE SOHC motor in a neighbor's stripped 1963 Galaxie stick-car -- four REAL full-length exhaust pipes stuck out from underneath the back bumper -- could not MISS the whirling sound of that 5-foot timing chain as he revved the motor -- high-11s without any trouble -- this was in 1972 -- barely streetable, questionably legal, but without a doubt capable.

P.S.S. -- the original 385 engine series were DOGS on the street -- 429 CJ/460s were no threat to a stock 428 FE CJ -- 385 had nearly baseball sized intake ports that simply would not flow for proper street performance -- intake/induction velocity was WAAY too groggy for a good street brawling motor -- motor looked good on paper, but was a terrible choice for anything other than pure-track, super-tweaked high-dollar car/team.
 
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CarlisleLandOwn said:
428cj was a pig, small blocks use to destroy them in the 1/4...
Click to expand...

A pig? Sorry, I gotta call BS on that. If you are referring stock to stock motors, when the 428CJ debuted on April 1st, 1968 at Pamona, it was quickly decided to be the fastest 1/4 mile full-production vehicle ever sold stock up to that point.
The street-going 428 CJs dominated just about everything for the next couple years. Even the venerable 'Street Hemi'. Most don't know it, but Chrysler's own stock 440 Magnum was slightly quicker in street trim than the Hemi, was far more durable and a whole lot less expensive. But it didn't have the cache of the 'Hemi' name.
On the ovals, the Fords were kicking everybody's asses, until Chrysler introduced thier aero 'Charger 500'. That did the trick, and Ford quickly responded with thier 'Torino Talledega', an aero-version of thier own...and again recaptured the lead.
Not to be outdone, Chrysler developed the ridiculous winged monstrosity 'Charger Daytona', the first 'stocker' to top 200 mph on a NASCAR speedway. The 'Superbird' followed quickly. They may be the holy-grail today, but when new those things sat on showrooms like they were bolted to the floor. Almost couldn't give then away. Strange, ain't it?
Basically, Ford and Chrysler were exchanging body-blows over these racing results, with the mighty Hemi going up against Ford's CJ, and then later 'Shotgun' (later renamed BOSS 429). The Fords always produced more raw power, but the advantage was to whomever had the latest areo-tricks on the car.
Ford had an experimental OHC version of the BOSS (not to be confused with the SOHC 'Cammer'), and Chrylsler had a DOHC Hemi planned as a counter-punch.
Ford also had 9/10ths of the development work done on the new Torino 'King Cobra', thier own version of Chrysler's 'winged warriors', which surely would have given Ford the edge again.
Then Big Bill decided that all aero-cars were outlawed, and Chrysler pulled out of NASCAR completetly in protest. As a result, Richard Petty drove for Ford that year. (most don't remember that).

The street-going CJ brought all the right stuff to a street motor, and it kicked ~~~.
Ford then introduced it's revolutionary (at the time) '385' series motors (429/460), a huge step forward. Basically, a refined version of Chevy's remarkable Mark II 'Porcupine' big block, a 429 version featured the 'poly-angle' head, also known as 'Semi-Hemi', 'Blue Crescent'...and finally the BOSS 429 came out with special heads. In race trim, the BOSS 429 was a take no prisoners engine and kicked the crap out of Chrysler's Hemi.
In street trim, the BOSS 429 engine was a slug...and that's putting it kindly. Stock 428/429 CJs were quicker, and about 1/4 the price. Basically, Ford just detuned the crap out of them for warranty purposes.
The next CJ, the 429 CJ was arguably the most advanced engine Ford ever produced up to that time. It was certainly much faster than thiers, or anyone elses small blocks.

Now...if you are referring to a 'built' motor: I agree. For real street-going purposes, a high-winding small block will kick the snot out of a big block. The real advantage of a big block is high sutained torque at high RPM operation,n exavtly what is needed on a super-speedway.
On the street, a big block was just the easiest and cheapest way to bring lots of HP and low end torque to a street going customer.

I am the original owner of a 1971 429 CJ Mach 1, and it certainly doesn't take any crap from most others from its era. I have also owned a BOSS 351 (Trans/Am race inspired small block), and it was pretty damn close to the big CJ in all repsects...except price and attitude. Tweaky, peaky and high-strung, they are a pain to drive as a 'driver', but as a race car its awesome.
The big block is like a walk in the park by comparison.

So, anyhoo...the 428 CJs were not pigs. So there.
 
Not sure about the 1967 Shelby GT-500 having 2-4 carb set-up, stock -- thought the motor was a single 4-bbl 428 in this car, from the factory?

You may be correct, now that I think about it -- a 2-4 bbl 428 motor, factory. Rarely saw one running on the street, in the day.

The factory big-block Cobras were 2-4 bbl, as far as I know.
 
Hey guys, sorry to all my fan's that I haven't been around in a while. I have been really busy. I just wanted to stop in and once again state that the FE motors are garbage boat anchor slugs. If anyone caught the Jegs Engine Masters Challenge this year they would know exactly what I'm talking about. Aftermarket 385 series CLEVELAND heads on Windsor small blocks RULED the competition. The FE's that didn't break came in way down the line. Anyone want to take a gander as to why the Cleveland small block REPLACED the FE?

As far as racing, its true the FE did well, but the problem is there is only 1 cylinder head that was any good (aside from the SOHC which was just insanely cool even today), 1 style of rods that were any good, and the rules that are based around that type of racing practically protect the FE. Put a Boss 429 in a FE powered race car and watch the FE get trounced. Protect it all you want, but it’s an ancient engine that only has “remember when” value. I stand by my statements and just wanted to share the engine masters newest run. If you would like to pick up a copy of Popular Hot Roding they covered the event, or you can just search the net for more info.
 
428-----again

Whats the matter, things going to smoothly to suit you, or in your nasty round of stirring things up its now our turn once again? I cant speak for everyone, but to me your opinion (which you have every right to express) isnt worth reading because of your antagonistic method of presentation. I have not seen the JEMC report but I can, as many others have, judge you on the accuracy (rather lack of) in your post.

"aftermarket 385 series cleveland heads--" Now just what would those be? We know about 335 series cleveland heads, but didnt know about 385 series heads------NOT!

"cleveland small block replaced the FE--" no, the 385 series (370/429/460/etc) replaced the FE.

"boss 429 in an FE powered car----FE get trounced" Gosh/darn/heck, kinda difficult, I would first pull out the FE. Next, No shirt sherlock, the Boss 429 was not even a first generation replacement of the FE, more like 2nd or 3rd,

All engines have some weak point as the mfg builds them for the public only after some sort of "blueprinting" process are they really prepared for anything other than street use--that pretty well applies to all engines. Again I will yield to those who have done it, unlike you.

"Ancient engine---" Your brilliance is obvious---. So is the Cleveland, pretty sure the flatheads, 272's, are as well :rolleyes: .

"Sorry to all my fans---" What the hell have you been smoking---.

As in a my previous post, I think you are just "stirring the pot". You opinion is your right, as is your right to be inaccurate. My objection is that you choose to be antagonistic, rude and contentious. I see a lot of wheels, interiors, hoods, engines etc. that I really dont like, but will not try to insult the owners. If you care anything about your fellow members, thats what you do.

My opinion is (largely because of your inaccuracy in your posts) that you are either "stirring the pot" or chronicly stupid. In previous posts in this thread, others who know you seem to be pretty well on the mark. Now have a really nice day and please let us know when it is our turn again for your trash----:rolleyes:
 
In CLO's defence I think that was a typo as I know he is an avid cleveland fan owning and building one so I wouldnt base a whole bash on just one post.

I do agree that the old FE engines are of ancient architecture and like most ford v8 engines had little aftermarket support. The 385 series engine was far superior however there wasnt much aftermarket support for those either back in the day. You just had a better starting point.

Funny thing about clevelands out the box and why a majority of them they just never RAN is because it was like putting a race head on street motor. (And I owned a boss 351 ) Totally mismatched IMO. Take my boss motor for instance...Do a cam...Bump up the compression and you had a very formidable machine..I could almost kick myself for getting rid of that motor..Solid lifters even

As for what replaced the FE engine....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_335_engine

You may want to argue with them
 
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FE/cleveland

Yea, Damon, I gave consideration that the "385" was a typo. I am also aware that he has a 351 C that he is building/built. So do I. I have a 70 Mach I w/4bbl heads that I am going to restore (not concours, more like restomod) and fully intend to drive it on the street some. I mentioned in a post that I would certainly be interested in hearing about that car. I considered a "typo", but seem to recall several typos in previous statements---not totally bad, we all do that. What sets him apart (at least to me) is accompanying those typos is his insistance in using inflamitory name calling about what other members love---namely the 428cj. He has made statements that are flatly false----again understandable as we all do that. He seems to be one of these individuals that thinks it is an "intellectual pursuit" to say stupid things in order to stimulate conversation. Seen a "million" (maybe not quite that many :D ) of people like that and they are usually very self-centered. No problem presenting a respectful (at least to other members) dissenting opinion. Someone posted that he was basically a chevy lover, and that speaks volumns about his statements here. I think I recall suggesting that he pull back on his statements a little----apparently he has determined he dosnt care enough about others to do that.

Having read a lot of your posts, DSB, I can give this guy a little more credit, but not much. I dont recall ever reading such statements as CLO makes from you (well maybe when you get into a pi~~ing contest with someone you know :D )
 
Shoot I did it to 335 series is cleveland!!! I'm just ging to start making up numbers at this point. I never got into FE motors or Clevelends because I was always a smallblock high revvin kinda guy. Plus when I got into thsi whole thing back in the mid to late 80's....I mean a Ford Big block?...Then came that 600 CID monster right out of the FMS catalog....Still for ahwt I always wanted a small block suited me fine..

So I'll leave all this arguing to the BB guys who care:O)
 
DamonSlowpokeBaumann said:
Shoot I did it to 335 series is cleveland!!! I'm just ging to start making up numbers at this point. I never got into FE motors or Clevelends because I was always a smallblock high revvin kinda guy. :O)
Click to expand...
Huh?? You owned a Boss 351 but weren't into Clevelands? What do you think a Boss 351 is? You are a very confused young man.
 
this one is getting even more weird.....

This one says this, that one says that....Sometime I would really like to sit down with you and talk engines...
Ford had different classes for it's engines.. 221 thru 351 "W" were one class. 332 thru 428 were another. 351 "C" was all by itself. 351"M" & 400 were another. Then there was the 370 thru 514. Add to that, BUT not the same are the mountian motors that start at 514 and go thru 820 cubes... These last two groups are both coming out of the same "385" class. but the later must use the "TALL" deck block.
Now add into this whole mess the "BOSS" engines, and the "SOHC's, or the Nascar 427's and the tunnel ports and you have a nice combo of engines to play with.
Each of the "racing" style engines had there place in history, some of them still hold records in many different types of racing. Heck, three of them were even banned from racing by some groups, because they were ahead of the field.....
Which one is better, ask a guy with a real 427 Cobra if he thinks that it is a "pig".... Ask Tim Allen if he thinks his Boss 429 is a "pig"... Ask Barry Poolley if he thinks his 428 super cobra jet is a "pig", Ask "Dyno Don" if his thunderbolt is a "pig'...
Need I go on from here, all of them will say the same thing, "In there time" they were great engines, and for that matter still are...
I have several of these engines in different cars that can also prove this point...This is where I will leave this one..........Rich
 
I said 385 instead of 335 in my original post..<!!Samemistake!

I had the boss351 motor in my 69 cougar xr7..Ran 13.7 with a peg leg and much better on Nitrous..Never at track however so no numbers...Considering the peg leg it was impressive for a STOCK motor.

I just perfer the lighter higher revving SB windsors..Not that the solid lifter 351 didnt rev....But it didnt scream like only a small block can.

The mistake was getting rid of car and practically giving the motor away..And the heads were 100% unmolested...That is what I can kick myself for
 
yardbird said:
Whats the matter, things going to smoothly to suit you, or in your nasty round of stirring things up its now our turn once again? I cant speak for everyone, but to me your opinion (which you have every right to express) isnt worth reading because of your antagonistic method of presentation. I have not seen the JEMC report but I can, as many others have, judge you on the accuracy (rather lack of) in your post.

"aftermarket 385 series cleveland heads--" Now just what would those be? We know about 335 series cleveland heads, but didnt know about 385 series heads------NOT!
Click to expand...


385 was a typo, can’t do everything all the time. And once in a blue moon I do make a mistake or two.


yardbird said:
"cleveland small block replaced the FE--" no, the 385 series (370/429/460/etc) replaced the FE.
Click to expand...


No, the Cleveland replaced the FE.


yardbird said:
"boss 429 in an FE powered car----FE get trounced" Gosh/darn/heck, kinda difficult, I would first pull out the FE. Next, No shirt sherlock, the Boss 429 was not even a first generation replacement of the FE, more like 2nd or 3rd,
Click to expand...


Glad we both agree that the FE is garbage. By the way, do you remember what year the 385 first came out ... I think you may want to look into that before you start calling it a 3rd gen replacement engine.


yardbird said:
All engines have some weak point as the mfg builds them for the public only after some sort of "blueprinting" process are they really prepared for anything other than street use--that pretty well applies to all engines. Again I will yield to those who have done it, unlike you.
Click to expand...


I have built FE’s, 335’s, 385’s and Windsors. I know them very well. *GASP* I have even built Chevrolets, Mopars, and various Imports … but since you have admitted that all of your knowledge comes second hand I guess that sort of puts you in a different spot doesn’t it?



yardbird said:
"Ancient engine---" Your brilliance is obvious---. So is the Cleveland, pretty sure the flatheads, 272's, are as well :rolleyes: .

"Sorry to all my fans---" What the hell have you been smoking---.

As in a my previous post, I think you are just "stirring the pot". You opinion is your right, as is your right to be inaccurate. My objection is that you choose to be antagonistic, rude and contentious. I see a lot of wheels, interiors, hoods, engines etc. that I really dont like, but will not try to insult the owners. If you care anything about your fellow members, thats what you do.

My opinion is (largely because of your inaccuracy in your posts) that you are either "stirring the pot" or chronicly stupid. In previous posts in this thread, others who know you seem to be pretty well on the mark. Now have a really nice day and please let us know when it is our turn again for your trash----:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Cleveland is an old engine, yet it is still one of the dominating cylinder heads on the market … go figure. Well, except for racing sanctions that have outlawed it in their rule book for being the “un fair” advantage. By the way, how are FE heads raking?

I have fan’s, and I have people that dislike my posting. But none the less, they both get together in all the threads/responses I make.

I could care less if someone’s feelings get hurt over the internet. If that’s the case then they need to get out more. The very same people that I argue with on here I regularly drink a few frosted barley pop’s with. Grow some thicker skin.

Its your turn.

pro street rich said:
This one says this, that one says that....Sometime I would really like to sit down with you and talk engines...
Ford had different classes for it's engines.. 221 thru 351 "W" were one class. 332 thru 428 were another. 351 "C" was all by itself. 351"M" & 400 were another. Then there was the 370 thru 514. Add to that, BUT not the same are the mountian motors that start at 514 and go thru 820 cubes... These last two groups are both coming out of the same "385" class. but the later must use the "TALL" deck block.
Now add into this whole mess the "BOSS" engines, and the "SOHC's, or the Nascar 427's and the tunnel ports and you have a nice combo of engines to play with.
Each of the "racing" style engines had there place in history, some of them still hold records in many different types of racing. Heck, three of them were even banned from racing by some groups, because they were ahead of the field.....
Which one is better, ask a guy with a real 427 Cobra if he thinks that it is a "pig".... Ask Tim Allen if he thinks his Boss 429 is a "pig"... Ask Barry Poolley if he thinks his 428 super cobra jet is a "pig", Ask "Dyno Don" if his thunderbolt is a "pig'...
Need I go on from here, all of them will say the same thing, "In there time" they were great engines, and for that matter still are...
I have several of these engines in different cars that can also prove this point...This is where I will leave this one..........Rich
Click to expand...

Rich, I honestly would enjoy that. I’ll buy the first round of frosted barley pops.

I know what the engine classes are, but thank you for giving the people that don't know a good accurate basis for comparison. I'm also going to say that you have probably at least seen 335 heads on a Windsor. BOSS 302 comes to mind. Modern Day Clevors, and some might categorize the 351m/400 as a factory Clevor.

Next, I like the 429's boss or not. The 385 series big block is a fantastic engine.

Moving on, yes, the thunderbolt was a fast car, but it was also a fiberglass front end lightweight car. Easiest way to go fast ... remove weight. So, I stand by what I wrote previously. Put a Boss 429 in a thunderbolt and watch it outrun the FE. At least Tim Allen has it right. :D Remember that all the classes FE's dominate in always out power/weight everything else. You even said it yourself. The 385 series engines were in MUCH heavier cars and THAT was the reason they couldn't compete in the racing sanctions with the FE's. Put a 385 series engine into a FE race car and the 385 will be faster. Also, anyone care to guess how the 514 fairs in an AC Cobra? I know.

Next, other then the SOHC FE heads which we won't even discuss because they are so difficult to come by, there is only 1 single head that made any power. There was only 1 set of rods from the factory that held up under RPM to make that power. And obviously, there was only 1 crank that would take that abuse. The factory cast parts that you found in 352's-390's-428’s just wouldn't handle the abuse. Not all 428's were hi po units. Just like all other series of engines, the FE was subject to family sedan duty. So everyone wants to start comparing, check out the Engine masters challenge. Aftermarket Cleveland heads (aka aluminum with revised ports) on Windsor blocks leaving the competition behind. Even a smog era 400 laid the smack down on the FE. :eek: And there were some fairly expensive FE’s in that competition too.


yardbird said:
Yea, Damon, I gave consideration that the "385" was a typo. I am also aware that he has a 351 C that he is building/built. So do I. I have a 70 Mach I w/4bbl heads that I am going to restore (not concours, more like restomod) and fully intend to drive it on the street some. I mentioned in a post that I would certainly be interested in hearing about that car. I considered a "typo", but seem to recall several typos in previous statements---not totally bad, we all do that. What sets him apart (at least to me) is accompanying those typos is his insistance in using inflamitory name calling about what other members love---namely the 428cj. He has made statements that are flatly false----again understandable as we all do that. He seems to be one of these individuals that thinks it is an "intellectual pursuit" to say stupid things in order to stimulate conversation. Seen a "million" (maybe not quite that many :D ) of people like that and they are usually very self-centered. No problem presenting a respectful (at least to other members) dissenting opinion. Someone posted that he was basically a chevy lover, and that speaks volumns about his statements here. I think I recall suggesting that he pull back on his statements a little----apparently he has determined he dosnt care enough about others to do that. Having read a lot of your posts, DSB, I can give this guy a little more credit, but not much. I dont recall ever reading such statements as CLO makes from you (well maybe when you get into a pi~~ing contest with someone you know :D )
Click to expand...


I am self centered. The world revolves around me and I have never gone out of my way to help any single person on this board … ever. Back to reality not everyone wants to get involved in a pissing match, so most just keep quiet. I on the other hand don’t mind stating my opinion. If you don’t like it, don’t read it.

I think you need to get your facts straight and stop listening to the BS. I'm not a Chevy guy. Yet in the same post you state that you KNOW of my Cleveland build. So which is it? Honestly, if you want to label me, label me a car guy.
 
DamonSlowpokeBaumann said:
I just perfer the lighter higher revving SB windsors..Not that the solid lifter 351 didnt rev....But it didnt scream like only a small block can.
Click to expand...

Damon, Damon, do you really know what you are talking about here? The 351C is a small block and in stock form with the same bore and stroke, but better heads and smaller bearing journals "screams" much better than a 351W motor. Yes a 302 may rev better than either motor but since you refer to the "Windsor" smallblocks and the 351 is the only one that was officially called the "Windsor", then it would be innaccurate to refer to only the 302 as a Windsor without specifically excluding the 351. 351W's in stock form sucked kind of like a 390 FE.

Until the 1990's when good cylinder heads came out and aftermarket crankshafts with smaller journals started appearing the 351W was always a dog. Back when Pro Stock used small block motors Bob Glidden didn't use a 351W now did he? :p
 
Fe/335/385

No doubt about it, your are stirring the pot---my original contention. Have you ever heard the term "compounding errors" ?

385 typo's------most of your posts on this subject must occur under a "Blue Moon"

Cleveland replaced FE----NOT! Proof in the mustangs alone. Clevelands limited to 351cu in from factory. Blocks (DH and Bore Spacing) will not support more cubes, that is in any rod ratios and Pin Hts that the factory is willing to go. 69/70 available with both 351C and 428CJ. When ford replaced the 428 "big block" they replaced it with the 429, as in the 71 mustang. Dont know of any 352 variations of the FE since mid 60's. 67/68 may have been the last 390 FE in mustangs, dont know for sure, am not digging out any books---! 428 FE used for all tank vehicles up to introduction of 429's. Not sure about any 370 cu in versions in trucks. 68 Galaxie's (7 ltr's) were 428's. 68 was first year of 429 in Tbirds, called "thunderjet" motors.

You and myself + numerous other do not agree FE's were garbage. What happened, you extend you defination of "garbage", to all FE's now? That means you consider the 427----in all its versions "garbage"? One of us is showing true ignorance, or worse, wonder who it is!!! 429 boss was (to my knowledge) not introduced into passenger cars (mustang) until 69. It is a desendant of the original 429 Thunderjet Therefore a newer generation---and a racing version at that.

I have built windsors, and a 460 CJ, plus AOD's/C4's?FMX/E4OD Plus several small block chebby marine engines. My 350 "Volvo" engine has a set of Dart SR's on it right that I put on when I rebuilt it. I have run and tuned a 69 Cyclone CJ of my brothers plus my 427 vette. Redid the heads on a 400 (notice, not a 400M) bronco and an have several of them plus D0** 351C blocks and and 2 & 4 bbl heads. I always do a disclaimer about being an "expert" on racing engines, but I have knowledge of a lot of them having have versions of them. Difference is, I have numerous , what I consider to be, experts, agreeing with at least part of what I am saying. Someone is indeed "in a different spot"

You have already been told how the FE heads are fairing, even while attached to FE blocks!

Do you consider the 351M/400 a "Modern Day Clevor"? I say "NO WAY", but thats just ole 2nd hand me. They are tall deck cleveland blocks w/3" mains and less efficient (exaust port water jacket) 2 bbl heads. I guess you could call those "Indy" engines if you wanted to :rolleyes:

You keep going back to a comparison of the FE's and the boss 429's. That has never been one of my contentions. Read my earlier post, I believe I told you "No Shirt".

You are unable to remember the original point that I challenged, way back, plus your recent reference to the 428CJ's as "pigs" "Garbage". You have gotten the answer from several experts with first hand knowledge----it simply is not correct. You cant argue your point on facts, as yours are "Blue Moon" variety. The disagreement is a very simple one and I think you got a resounding rebuttal. Now you are pointing to a professional engine masters challenge as a statement of an engines street performance. Would you say the 283/327/350 chebby was a "pig" now that it is replaced by technology? How about the Mopar 340's, the Pontiac/Olds 455.

At this point, the thread is going in circles, if you want more replies, just start back at the top, all the answers have been provided RE: "Pigs" "garbage" No, I no longer have any interest in your cleveland/mustang. I have my own and many accurate sources-------. You got it from here----:rolleyes:
 
Damon, Damon, do you really know what you are talking about here?
Click to expand...

Dave depends I've owned both..And the 302 is very much a windsor motor..And never did I say the cleveland wasnt or couldnt be a HIGH REVVING MOTOR..Nor did I say a SBF windsow was a higher revving engine..Alhough I may get into this when I have time...I MERELY SAID..I perfer the lighter (which they are) higher reving windsors..I never said higher revving then a cleveland..But as I said..I will get into that argument later:O)
 
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DamonSlowpokeBaumann said:
Dave depends I've owned both..And the 302 is very much a windsor motor..And never did I say the cleveland wasnt or couldnt be a HIGH REVVING MOTOR..Nor did I say a SBF windsow was a higher revving engine..Alhough I may get into this when I have time...I MERELY SAID..I perfer the lighter (which they are) higher reving windsors..I never said higher revving then a cleveland..But as I said..I will get into that argument later:O)
Click to expand...

I just don't understand this statement...

Not that the solid lifter 351 didnt rev....But it didnt scream like only a small block can.
Click to expand...
You are clearly inferring that the 351C is not a "small block". And you have clearly stated that there is another motor that can "out-scream it". In street trim I really don't think so. Sure a 331ci race motor might spin 10,000rpm better than a 351 but at street rpm's (7000 and below) I'm quite certain that you nor anyone else will tell the difference.
 
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