1991 Super Coupe, no spark

[Ken Seegers]

when you are trying to start it, do you get and up shift coming on the dash? If you do then it is your crank sensor.

[UBHSTRY]

Thank you! I will be using that info as soon as I can get back on the car

[UBHSTRY]

Originally Posted by BirdofPrey97

http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthre...885#post733885

All this info is from other Posts by Jenny. Mike8675309 Thanks MIKE!!

See how Battery Plus goes to #8 all the time?
Check that.

See how Battery Plus goes to #13 with ignition run or start?
Check That

If you find plus at #13, then check for Plus at #24.
If you have plus at #8 and then nothing at #13, bad ignition switch or wiring.
If you have plus at #8 and #13, but not at #24, bad IRCM (CCRM).

Note how Power through EEC Relay is then tapped to trigger other relays. If you are unfamiliar with a relay wiring diagram, the coiled looking thing is the pull or push coil in the relay. With 12v flowing through that it will pull the switch (noted by an arrow between two dots) closed.

EEC and LFC relays have a diode across them to handle relay coil kick back, a current created when the electric field collapses when power is removed.

Thanks BOP, I can not however go to that link. But I am going to go thru what you described there.

[S_Mazza]

Well, it seems clear that you are not getting any primary ignition pulses out of the DIS. My thinking would be that the next thing to do is to make sure the crank sensor pulses are reaching the DIS. I don't have the pinout handy, but I would figure out which wire is the crank trigger, then backprobe that pin in the connector and use an analog voltmeter to make sure 12V pulses show up when cranking.

And, of course, make sure that the DIS has power and ground in the first place.

[BirdofPrey97]

Originally Posted by UBHSTRY

Thanks BOP, I can not however go to that link. But I am going to go thru what you described there.

Try this.

Never hurts to pay the $15 for membership. If you havent done that yet I would strongly suggest it.

This pin out is from a 90. Seems there were a few changes somewhere between 90 and 93.

[UBHSTRY]

BOP, I do believe you are correct. I will be joining the club here a few days.
I want this on page one, so when I get to my garage today, I can locate all of this easily.

[UBHSTRY]

This may be a really stupid question to ask.....but I just have to ask it. The SC engine has a sensor in the oil pan, which I sure think is for simply flashing a low oil light on start up....so, didnt bother to use it, or take the time to put the sensor in this oil pan. The car of course has ran just fine without it, and I sure dont think it would stop spark from happening.....but, someone just ease my mind.....and tell me, that oil sensor in the pan of a 1991 SC, would in no way, shape, or form, suddenly stop spark, because its not hooked up.....

[UBHSTRY]

Originally Posted by S_Mazza

Well, it seems clear that you are not getting any primary ignition pulses out of the DIS. My thinking would be that the next thing to do is to make sure the crank sensor pulses are reaching the DIS. I don't have the pinout handy, but I would figure out which wire is the crank trigger, then backprobe that pin in the connector and use an analog voltmeter to make sure 12V pulses show up when cranking.

And, of course, make sure that the DIS has power and ground in the first place.

Ok, I have 12v constant on all the coil pack wires, coming from the module. I believe, that is pin 8,9,11 on the DIS, with KO. I have good ground, good KO 12V in the proper places on the DIS. I have 12 volts on the CS feed line, now, their are then two wires, that read 12v ground under KOff, and 4.2 ground with key on. After which, if you crank, two of them drop as you crank it, looked somewhere in the 2 volt range. No spark, also, if you run metal thru the CS, it will show the same fluctution. To me, it seems the CS is triggering., even shows up at the DIS input wire. But, alas....no spark This is awful, I simply have to be overlooking some very stupid thing, and just dont see it.

I could have understood if it had blown a rod out, spun a bearing, something failing mechanically...........that was always a known *could happen* category. But this thing ran just off the hook. You could literally smoke the rear tires at 25-30mph if you want. I thought it really was too high of compression, being an N/A motor...but it has held up really well. I am pretty sure that is in part to running the Alcohol injection. It starts at 5psi. And yes, I have put miles on her, I do outside sales....and I drive it for my daily sales car. Has been rock solid. Tangle with anything down the highway, (or a dead stop for that matter, just dont smoke the tires.....and dont smoke them on the 1-2shift) and the new cars out there as I have come to find out.

Driving me nuts, I have not had much time at all to spend on this, and its driving me nuts. I have assembled a pretty fast car, made it relieable...well for the first 3500 miles anyways, it looks good, has a nice interior...seats are not even ripped, only has 70,000 miles on her. And you know what? Eeeeee....I hate to say this, cause you know,....I am a Z28 Guy.......LOL I have owned hordes, literally of them. From an 82 iron duke base, to several LS1 ram airs. Never got to keep them too long though, just long enough to make them run good, and move them on. This is my *first* ford. I am taken a bit back by it, love driving it, makes ya feel good going down the road, and every now and again, it can holds its own. I can park it in a high class neighbor hood, and its old enough and nice enough it looks good there. Its a cross the board car. Can be taken anywhere, and be proud of it....and well, I miss driving it. I really hope the car gods above will smile down upon me, because its summer time, I drive allot, and it makes driving FUN again.
I really want to get the A/C in it, and some other things...but nothing till it runs again. I just cant imagine what I am over looking on this car.

My buddies have even gone as far to put a chevy bow tie over the ford blue oval on the trunk.......my fiance was in on this also...lol All in good fun, but its frustrating. I dont come across to many problems I cant solve, in one way or another. But, here it sits, again, no spark.....

And to just make it worse, I almost now have more money in this problem, than I do in the car as a whole.

[DrFishbone]

Originally Posted by UBHSTRY

This may be a really stupid question to ask.....but I just have to ask it. The SC engine has a sensor in the oil pan, which I sure think is for simply flashing a low oil light on start up....so, didnt bother to use it, or take the time to put the sensor in this oil pan. The car of course has ran just fine without it, and I sure dont think it would stop spark from happening.....but, someone just ease my mind.....and tell me, that oil sensor in the pan of a 1991 SC, would in no way, shape, or form, suddenly stop spark, because its not hooked up.....

The sensor in the oil pan is only used for the VMM's (little message center above the radios in some T-Birds). It is used for an oil level read-out and also estimates oil life. If you have no VMM, it serves no purpose...if you do, that's all it's for.

[BirdofPrey97]

Has the ignition switch been changed?

If I knew where you were I would bring over some extra parts and help you figure this out.

[UBHSTRY]

No BOP, I have not changed the ignition switch as of yet. I did however test it via the diagram. For all the more it is, I probally will do that the next time I get a chance to work on it. I was hoping for tonight, but worked late as usuall.

I am over in Pa, north of pittsburgh. Probally to far for you...LOLOL

[UBHSTRY]

Originally Posted by DrFishbone

The sensor in the oil pan is only used for the VMM's (little message center above the radios in some T-Birds). It is used for an oil level read-out and also estimates oil life. If you have no VMM, it serves no purpose...if you do, that's all it's for.

Phew.........I needed that

[S_Mazza]

Originally Posted by UBHSTRY

Ok, I have 12v constant on all the coil pack wires, coming from the module. I believe, that is pin 8,9,11 on the DIS, with KO. I have good ground, good KO 12V in the proper places on the DIS. I have 12 volts on the CS feed line, now, their are then two wires, that read 12v ground under KOff, and 4.2 ground with key on. After which, if you crank, two of them drop as you crank it, looked somewhere in the 2 volt range. No spark, also, if you run metal thru the CS, it will show the same fluctution. To me, it seems the CS is triggering., even shows up at the DIS input wire. But, alas....no spark This is awful, I simply have to be overlooking some very stupid thing, and just dont see it.

I could be wrong, but I think the voltage pulses from the crank sensor are supposed to be much higher ... maybe the full 12 volts. If you are getting only 2 volts fluctuation on the lines from the crank sensor, then I would suspect it's not enough to trigger the DIS. Maybe you have a corroded connection or frayed wire? The wires can contact the belts if not routed properly.

I wonder if you can unplug the crank sensor and apply 12V directly to the feed line to trigger the DIS manually? This is hypothetical and I do not guarantee that you won't hurt any electronics doing it.

[UBHSTRY]

I picked up the ignition switch today on my way home from work, hopefully get it in this weekend at some point......I have to wonder if this will actually fix it........ I hope so. If not, I am going to try the above suggestion of hitting the cs side with 12v and see if that will fire the coil packs.

[UBHSTRY]

Switch did nothing. Interestingly enough, I noticed I have 12 volts at each terminal of the coil pack, with key on......