Question for you all!! How proud are ya??

[dirtybird91]

Hey dudes! I really think that 93SC has a valid point here that needs addressed!! Who will be the first to rebutt??? Good point 93SC!!!
I know: "I'm instigating trouble here!"
dirtybirdie

[tbirdsc357]

Allow me to play the bad guy once again....for the sake of discussion (It's been a while since I've been in a good debate )

Originally posted by thunderstruck

The bottom line is that We have NEVER tried to take over any country, only liberate them.

Liberate Yes, but only when the US has something to gain.

Example 1: The taliban had taken over Afghanistan long before last year. The only people/group that tried to help was the UN and they failed. No one else did anything while these people were being brutalized. It is only because of the attack on the twin towers that the US attacked the taliban, and used the cover of "we must stand up for justice and human rights"

Example 2: Sure the US would try and liberate Kuwait........do you think they would stand back and watch Iraq (second largest oil reserve in the world) take over Kuwait, I don't think so.

[93SC]

I like a good debate, to bad we're not local, I'd buy you guys a beer after we got done arguing.

[tbirdsc357]

Originally posted by 93SC
And if liberation is the goal, why is it that we let China do what it wants when their record of human rights (or the lack thereof) is appalling.

93SC, good point.

The same goes for North Korea. We are attacking Iraq for supposedly having/making weopns of MD with no proof.......however, N.Korea is openly breaking their "no nuclear program" ........should the US not attack them instead/also??

[tbirdsc357]

Originally posted by 93SC
I like a good debate, to bad we're not local, I'd buy you guys a beer after we got done arguing.

If you are going to be at Carlisle maybe we can have a drink then.

[93SC]

Should one of my birds ever fly again, your on.

[thunderstruck]

That is an excellent point about China. I agree that something needs to be done there as well. I believe that will be a serious problem in the future. To bad Bill Clinton helped them and gave them military secrets in exchange for campiagn contributions. He should be hanged as a traitor in my opinion.
You have somewhat of a point about only liberating them when our interests are at stake. But keep in mind that if we went around liberating EVERYONE who is not in a free country, we would be all over the place. Our military would be spread too thin. We kinda have to fight one battle at a time.
North Korea Is definitely a problem. I think we have been doing the right thing trying to solve things diplomatically, however, if they continue to thumb thier nose at us as they have the past week, I wouldnt object to military pressure.

[tbirdsc357]

When talking politics the discussion always seem to get out of hand and people get very emotional and take things personally.

I must say that this was a very good civilized conversation. Well done to all who participated.

[dirtybird91]

Guys this tread has hit the bullseye! It has really served the purpose it was meant to.
My knowledge is growing thanks to you guys!
It's also reassuring to know that I will be spending years around people that think past cars.
dirtybird91

[al35thsc]

quite a few of OUR people would die also. not to mention the ecological DISASTER that would follow. the earth wouldn't be capable of supporting america, let alone your america II and III. (i like the plan, it's just not feasible. thats why it hasn't happened)

Riiiiiiiiight and the pestilence of rotting corpses, the spreading of viruses by all the wussy a$$ biological crap they are coming up with wont???

Originally posted by dirtybird91
Well, I don't know how serious he was about just blowing the hell out of the middle east. However; it was pretty funny! But seriously something does have to be done because this is getting totally "out of hand".

Don't put words in my mouth please I was 100% totally friggin serious about what I said. All this crap about the attack on America and weapons of mass destruction, dudes, its just a friggin coverup. Read this if its still down then read it later.

Jr. is just picking up Sr's unfinished business. Where's all the attention towards Bin Laden??? "Smoke him out and hunt him down like a fox?" Where's all that talk at now??? It's hard to believe that they all of a sudden stopped. Now he is concentrated in sending troops into Iraq, but what about Bin??? If it isn't obvious whats going on, pick up a real news paper instead of the bull you see on TV.

I think it sucks that so many lower income people, white and "minorities" are being sent in and used as tools for Bush and the never ending saga Desert Storm II. Everyone knows sequels suck! So why deteriorate the economy, add on to the budget defficit, force so many into bankruptcy and create all this extra stress on people??? Its all a friggin joke to me. I mean the bastard can barely pronounce "Nucular" (nuclear) and he is concerned about weapons of mass destruction. Were any of these issues on his ballot when the republicans were voting??? Then again what do they care about right? So they lose a couple hundred thou in the stock market, big deal, they'll make it up by firing some democrats.

Here's an idea, send all of our troops back to their families, aim some missiles right at Afghanistan, and Iraq, but send them the "scenic route" around through another country so no one can really see where they came from and blow some terrorists up. Then if we get blamed for it, deny it. Seriously, if these idiots had some real weapons, they wouldnt be using airplanes as missiles now would they??

Al

[dirtybird91]

Who in the hell is going to debate Al tonight??? Lets get it going!


dirtybird91

[tbirdsc357]

Originally posted by al35thsc


Don't put words in my mouth please I was 100% totally friggin serious about what I said. All this crap about the attack on America and weapons of mass destruction, dudes, its just a friggin coverup. Read this if its still down then read it later.

Jr. is just picking up Sr's unfinished business. Where's all the attention towards Bin Laden??? "Smoke him out and hunt him down like a fox?" Where's all that talk at now??? It's hard to believe that they all of a sudden stopped. Now he is concentrated in sending troops into Iraq, but what about Bin??? If it isn't obvious whats going on, pick up a real news paper instead of the bull you see on TV.

Al

I would love to continue the debate but if you read my posts earlier......I agree with most of what Al has said. Except for the whole "Nuke Earth" thing

[SeanMatteson]

At the risk of getting steamrolled by the emotions in this discussion, I'll toss in my $0.02 CDN worth (yeah, that's some negligible amount in USD)...

I think what's at the heart of the cause of the event of 9/11 is the United States' foreign policy. The war with Iraq (the first time) was precipitated by the fact that tonnes of US funds had been invested in Kuwait, in the petroleum industry, and others. The US businessmen who invested the money carry a lot of clout with the US government. They stood to lose too much if they didn't lobby the US government to do something about Iraq's invasion of Kuwait. Thus, the US went to war against Sadam Hussein and his government, a government who the US helped put in place in Iraq. Then, despite the assistance the US gave to Al Queda in fighting the Soviets in Afganistan, Al Queda led by Osama Bin Laden decide they aren't happy with the fact that instead of still living in the favour of the US, they are now finding that the US strongly supports such anti-Muslim countries as Isreal. ...So, you guessed it, they add the US to their 'most hated' list, and the planning of terrorist attacks on US soil started.

By no means am I going to argue that Sadam and Osama are nice guys. I think for the most part they deserve the bum wrap they've got. I'm just suggesting that it shouldn't be any big shock to the American people that these foreign governments and militant organizations are bound to be a little unhappy with them. How many girls do you know who would be happy about you taking them to bed, screwing the livin' hell out of them, and then turnin' your back on them and callin' them a whore?! ...I think that's not so much an exaggeration.

...Then, on the other hand, you've got us Canajuns, who are way too passive all the time! We grumble quietly as we fork over half of every cent we earn to a bunch of free-loadin' politicians who couldn't do an honest days work if their mothers' lives depended on it!!! I think the biggest problem with Canadian politics today is that anyone who would actually do good for the country is far too smart to ever get involved in politics! ...Leave that crap to the bums and crooks!

Honestly, I hope that somehow my country finds a way to contribute to ending terrorism in our world. Perhaps supporting the US (however we can) in the war against terrorism, regardless of what the UN decides to do, would be a step in the right direction.

Respectfully yours,

Sean

[dirtybird91]

Very well stated Sean! Who's next???
That will be a hard act to follow!
dirtybirdie

[93SC]

I think that it should be noted that Osama Bin Laden didn't just decide that he hated America for no good reason. For one thing he was rebuilding the infrustructure of parts of Jordan I believe when the US decided that we didn't like his politics. So we made the Jordain governtment force him out. This was after we trainded him and gave him $$ to fight the Soviets in the Afgan war. So we pretty much just screwed him, and he was trying to better a poverty stricken area. And his other stated reason is our continuing presence in Saudi Arabia, when we said we would leave right after the Gulf War.

I'm not trying to justify his actions, and I would like to see him killed. But you have to realize that we are not an inoccent party to all that has been happening.