In responce to dyno comparison....

[tbirdsc357]

The main reason that I wanted to go to TAG was to validate my numbers. I had an chance to do that on the same night as Bill. I found out the same thing as Bill in terms of dyno accuracy. I pulled almost the same thing at Dynopower (Monday) and Tag (Wednesday) This tells me that both facilities are accurate.....or at least consistent.

I must agree that Tag is very congested as suggested by Bill, due to the fact that there were two other cars in a very small shop which we were dynoing at. I needed help to get in and out of the shop......maybe due to poor driving skills

The most disappointing part of dealing with Tag is their set, very firm pricing of $75.00 + Tax even if you want to do 1 pull. However, if that is their policy, there is nothing we can do about that, and he cannot be blamed for that. If you don't like the pricing then don't go.

I would recommend Tag ONLY if you are going to be tuning you car, and in that case you have an unlimited number of runs at your disposal, in that given hour

After corresponding with Dave Neibert, I confirmed that my tranny can have the OD locked out by the press of a button. Something that Mel @ Tag said you could not do. Jeff at Dynopower never had a problem locking out my OD....I found this to be very odd, especially since Mel seems to be a VERY knowledge mechanic.

I myself will probably not use Tag as a dyno facility again because of the following reasons:

- I normally only require 3 pulls and I can get that for $40.00 @ Dynopower as opposed to $75.00 + Tax @ Tag.

- I find Tag too crowded for my taste.

- Dynopower is 5 minutes from my house

- Most importantly, I confirmed that the same results is achieved at both Tag and Dynopower. So no dyno is misleading, this was the main reason I/we started looking for another shop.

This is simply my analysis of the two shops, however if anyone feels that I have made an incorrect point or simply do not agree for whatever reason......speak on it.

[MY90SC]

why isn't this thread stuck to the top and locked Steve???
As far as the 2 facilities I have been to both only strapping my own car down at TAG and not Jeff so I guess my opinion could be seen by some as biased. Thas ok with me and my car...
I got a more comfortable vibe from Mel at Tag then Jeff at Dyno power Services. I found Mel to be informative helpfull ndgenerous with his time and

equipment. I was on the dyno for close to 1.5 hours

and when he wanted me to start I wanted to wait

another 15 minutes for the car to cool off a little

more. He had no problem with this. He spent time

exlaining to me why it was way more accurate to get

an AF reading from attaching a special coupler to a

bung in your dowtube(a very cheap thing to do) then

sticking a sniffer up your tailpipe. It all made

perfect sense to me. Seeing that the exhaust must

travel all the way through the exhaust system before

reaching the probe I figured it might just be a

differant reading. I could be wrong but it sure does

seem logical to me.
Mels. Dyno is there for him and his race cars. He

has a vested interest in being accurate this is why

I believe he uses the bung in the downtube method of

A/F reading.
I think that when approached properly with the right

attitude Mel would bend over backwards to help

clubmembers using his Dyno. I honestly believe that

the price structure issue can be worked out so that

we as a club realize some sort of discount or

special pricing.
I for one would like to see us hold a meet or Dyno

night at TAG Motorsports whether or not it is a

club sanctioned event or facility.

If this club is not going to be sanctioning TAG as a facility becasue of the opinion of one person I am not going to continue to be a member of this club. I really enjoy the company of most of the club members but if we all have to bow to one persons wishes or opinions it is not a club anymore its more like a dictatorship.
I certainly do not agree with the thread stuck to the top of the board as if to say like it or lump my opinion is the only one that matters and the topic is closed for discussion I believe that this is the sort of childish confrontational attitude that fueled any negative experience at TAG. I don't think anyone in this club should be able to just label a potentially usefull contact as "off limits to club sanctioning" like that. I for one do not agree with it so where is the Moderation in this. Lastly I freaking hate being told what I can and cannot do or being told where I can and cannot go I don't think that the club should operate this way.

anyways sorry for the wierd looking format on this post somewthing strange happened when I went from notepad to the post.

[Bill McNeil]

why isn't this thread stuck to the top and locked Steve???

Because this post is not club related.

so I guess my opinion could be seen by some as biased.

I agree.

I think that when approached properly with the right attitude Mel would bend over backwards to help club members using his Dyno

How do you know how he was approached if you weren't there?

I for one would like to see us hold a meet or Dyno night at TAG Motorsports whether or not it is a club sanctioned event or facility.

That is why I said people are free to go where they please. Ed and I have discussed this (albeit briefly), and we agreed that it would not be suitable for club events.

If this club is not going to be sanctioning TAG as a facility becasue of the opinion of one person I am not going to continue to be a member of this club.

Ed makes the final decision. There is only one President, and he is one person, so one person does make the decisions.

I certainly do not agree with the thread stuck to the top of the board as if to say like it or lump my opinion is the only one that matters and the topic is closed for discussion I believe that this is the sort of childish confrontational attitude that fueled any negative experience at TAG.

There is a reason we have a President and events co-ordinators. These people make decisions that are in the best interest of the club and its members. If anything, you are being confrontational in this matter, and no one else.

I don't think anyone in this club should be able to just label a potentially usefull contact as "off limits to club sanctioning" like that.

No one said he wasn't a useful contact. In fact, I specifically mentioned it would be convenient for those living in the west-end to go there, if they feel comfortable. As long as it is not a club event, people can do whatever they please. Just because you are a member of the club, doesn't mean we control your actions. You are free to do what you please, but we are also free to make recommendations based on actual experiences.

Lastly I freaking hate being told what I can and cannot do or being told where I can and cannot go I don't think that the club should operate this way.

I'm not sure where you got this idea, but no one is telling you to do anything. Information is meant to be useful and informative, and you were provided with information.

I for one do not agree with it so where is the Moderation in this

I don't see where there is a need for moderation, other than the fact your comments could be considered personal attacks, and of offensive nature, which is clearly mentioned in the "SCCoO posting guidlines".

[Jason Wild]

I went by Jeff's last night to talk with him and ask about dyno and he was more then willing to get me in last night if he could have or was willing to let me go on a 12 if I wanted to but I said I would come back. So I guess Jeff will do anything for someone.

I feel the price is better at Jeff's

[Ryan A Harris]

I'm affraid to say anyhting here, but:

Bill it seemed wierd to me that you strapped your car on the dyno, then did apull. Then talked about the price. I think that to eliminate any confussion, you should have asked that stuff beofre you got the dyno.

I'm sorry that your exprience with TAG was not good. I will still stand by them. I will have no issues with my car going there. As Ron said, TAG tunes race cars, not street cars. This is one factor in the O2 bungs. Its not a matter of convience, but accuarcy. If a motor was on a engine dyno, would you build a full exhust sytem, then use some scope, the furthest place from the O2's? Plus having the bung ahead of the Cats, this will give youy the true reading of the A/F. Think how much CAN be burned off threw the cats.

I have no issue where anyone goes to dyno there car, if they do. If I go to TAG again, and end up tuning my car to put out more power than my pulls at Jeffs, will my numbers be accetped?

I hope that Bill, you don't take this the wrong way. I do not want to nit pcik with you over dyno's or anything for that matter. I think that now that you & Steve have tested the 2 dyno's all is good. They are both accurate, so thats all what matters, really.

[MY90SC]

yeah OK Bill

The dyno operator's name is Mel, and unfortunately, he does not possess the same qualities as Jeff, either in his customer service skills, or his business attitude.

I know of 3 club members that disagree with that statement
not to mention it's confrontational nature

As for myself, I will never be using TAG Motorsports again. I would recommend that everyone in the club try to use Jeff at Dyno Power instead, but I understand that some people live in the west and, so convenience is an issue. The club will not be sanctioning TAG Motorsports as a recommended facility, and we will not be having any club events there.

Lets face it Bill you are PO'd because he wouldn't bend his pricing for you and your sticky thread is your little revenge trip. Call it confrontational on my part I really don't care if you want to ask me not post here thats kewl too I call it as I see it. I have made some good friends here in this club and feel like I come out ahead no matter what.

I just don't like the way that you handled it and being a board moderator and an event coodinator for the club I would have thought you would have handled it in an unbiased nature.
your thread is clearly meant to do 2 things Bill
1- promote Dyno Power Services to the club
2-Discourage the club from using TAG Motorsports

I wonder why people have differant experiences at the same place it must be the only variable.

so if this be my last post everyone it was a slice you all still know how to get a hold of me


seeya

[tbirdsc357]

Ron, thank you for voicing your opinion. Thats why I created this thread.

Now, I understand that you may have a personal prefrence in dyno facilities and that is fime, in fact so do I. You mentioned that you got a good vibe from Mel and that he was very helpful. I agree with you. He is very knowledgeable as I mentioned in the post above.

However, Jeff will also go to great lenghts to help out club members. I can give you many, many examples from myself, Bill, Andrew, Les and others. I have been to Jeff many times as a club member, with my buddys Mustang, and my other friends Camero. Jeff has gone as fas as to buy food, coffee, and/or drinks for everyone there out of his own pocket. I don't think you would get that anywhere else.

As far as the air/fuel thing goes.......Mels system might be more accurate, but Jeffs machine does the job for what the average member needs. A funny story that comes to mind is when the US spent thousands of $$ to make a pen that wrote in space while the Russians used a pencil. As long as it does the job.

Now for the part about "telling you what you can and can't do" I hope that was not derrived from my post because no where do I make such a bold statement. We are all grown men here and are free to do as we plaese.

As far as Dyno events at Tag, I have no desire to pay $82.00 for 2 pulls. From what Bill was told yesterday that is his fixed price and he does not change that for anyone.....or else he will lose more money. I was there and heard that from his own mouth. Absoloutly no flexibility or compramise was shown for two new customers who could bring future clients. Not very business like in my opinion.

The sole purpose of my trial at Tag was once again, to see is there was any significant diffenence in numbers. There is none. BOTH FACILITIES ARE THE SAME. Soooooo if they are both the same I will go with the cheeper one, as will most other people.

BTW most of the cars in our club are not even equiped to get an air/fuel reading at Tag. So that feature is usless to me and many others.

I do have a question for you......with the exception of the more accurate air/fuel (maybe....might be Mell trying to sell his eqiupment) what benefits are there in going to Tag over Dynopower?

Jeff is just as accurate, cheeper, flexible in his times and pricing while Mel is definitely not, plus a lot of members already feel comfortable with Jeff.

Don't take this as a slam against Mel because it is not, it is a comparison between the two facilities with the same equipment to see who offers the better service for the lowest price. I think that is Dynopower.

[tbirdsc357]

Also, it seems that there is huge tension between you guys, not including me of course So say what you have to say to each other, either here or by PM and get it off your chest.

I think my sole purpose for comparing the two Dynos has been lost in some petty undelineing soap opera between you guys.

[Bill McNeil]

Ron,

I find it most interesting that you are commenting most agressively, but you were not present for the happenings and factual exchange of information that occured on Wednesday night. I'm sure you had a good experience with Mel, and I would like to encourage you to go there in the future if you feel comfortable. Steve summed up what we are trying to communicate perfectly.

He came right out and said he would not be flexible on price for anyone, and that no matter how much work he does, or how much time he spends, he still wants to get paid per car, which is not the best interest of most members. Remember, this is not about me, but rather about the interest of the average club member who does not want to spend $75 for 1 pull, when they can get 3 or 4 pulls for $50 with Jeff. As of right now, I don't know of any members that have an o2 bung specially fabricated into their exhaust system, so that isn't convenient for most, and thus also not recommend in the better interest of the club, and its members.

Bill it seemed wierd to me that you strapped your car on the dyno, then did apull. Then talked about the price

Ryan: Obviously you weren't listening when we were there. Steve called ahead of time, then asked me to share his hour which was communicated as $75. I was under the impression that the price had already been discussed, that is why things worked out the way they did. This is not about what happened with me, but is regarding his pricing policy for dynoing in general.

I know of 3 club members that disagree with that statement not to mention it's confrontational nature

Ron: The rules in the posting guidelines apply to registered users or club members communicating with each other on the board, not people referring to a 3rd party that is not present.

Lets face it Bill you are PO'd because he wouldn't bend his pricing for you

Ron: Incorrect. It is not that he wouldn't bend pricing for ME, but rather his policy does not allow the type of flexible pricing, and paying based on the amount of pulls which most people are interested in.

I just don't like the way that you handled it and being a board moderator and an event coodinator

Ron: Being a moderator has nothing to do with this whatsoever. As for being an events co-ordinator, dealing with events is exactly what is involved here. Ed, myself and Les have to make decision on where we hold meets, where we dyno, and what track we go to. Does this mean you'll argue with Les over going to Cayuga instead of St. Thomas? We choose the places we choose for a reason, but that doesn't mean you can't do whatever you want on your own time.

I really don't care if you want to ask me not post here thats kewl

Ron: Please don't make assumptions and jump to conclusions. No one is asking you to refrain from posting, so your presence here is by your own choice.

If I go to TAG again, and end up tuning my car to put out more power than my pulls at Jeffs, will my numbers be accetped?

Ryan: Yes. The accuracy issue has already been covered.

[MY90SC]

Steve

I simply stated that I was not that comfortable with Jeff's operation
I found him to be a very nice guy I did ask him a few Q's at one of last years dyno events that I attended and felt brushed off becasue I was not dynoing.
I was asked why I was not comfortable with dyno power services and I answered in another thread.

as far as doing my own thing I do.
I was agitated at the sticky and should not have posted that statement.

As far as the benefits of TAG for me at least
1-I drive my car.
2- dead accuracy.(if you install a bung)
3-Knowledgeable operator( he bought the dyno for the 1100 HP motor he built.)
4-I personally felt as though the dyno was mine for that hour and I liked it.
5-flexibility-I called TAG at 5:00pm Tuesday and inquired about strapping my car down Mels answer was where are you when?? can you be here?? I told him I could be there in an hour he said no problem.


I guess after some thought my biggest problem with this is I had a very positive experience with TAG and Mel and wanted to promote the place only to find it being completey slammed on behalf of the club...
very dissapointing.

[tbirdsc357]

Originally posted by MY90SC
Steve

I simply stated that I was not that comfortable with Jeff's operation
I found him to be a very nice guy I did ask him a few Q's at one of last years dyno events that I attended and felt brushed off becasue I was not dynoing.


I guess after some thought my biggest problem with this is I had a very positive experience with TAG and Mel and wanted to promote the place only to find it being completey slammed on behalf of the club...
very dissapointing.

Ron, please keep in mind that when you attempted to talk to Jeff he was in the middle of a club meet, dynoing members cars, having people all around, and he might have had a long day.....I know I would be a little "firm" in giving a responce to someone in the middle of all that.

I too had a good experience at Tag. Mel was helpful, informative, and knowledgeable. He took the time to explain things and that was good. However his pricing is an issue ....unfortunately to me and other members a big issue. That's my biggest complaint.

All I want to know is how much HP & TQ my car puts out.......bottom line is that Jeff can do that for me for half the price of Tag.

[Bill McNeil]

and wanted to promote the place only to find it being completey slammed on behalf of the club...

Ron: The club had not "slammed" you in any way. Ed and I simply made a decision that based on the price structure, NOT MY EXPERIENCE, it would not be suitable for holding club events.

Other issues, such as the convenience of the A/F probe in the exhaust pipe which EVERYONE can use, the fact that Jeff has held club events for us before with as many as 15 people in one night, and that Jeff runs hours later into the evening.

2- dead accuracy.(if you install a bung)

I'm sure that if the Government of Ontario can use a tailpipe measurement system for the Drive Clean program, it is accurate enough for the SC owners in the club.

Knowledgeable operator

Jeff has even helped me upload tuner files into my car before, and does all the dyno time for Magnus Motorsports, J&P and other race teams.

I personally felt as though the dyno was mine for that hour and I liked it.

If you need the dyno for an hour, then I don't blame you.

I drive my car

We have never asked Jeff if we can drive, so we don't know how flexible he is on this issue. I'm sure if we asked, we might be able to.

I did ask him a few Q's at one of last years dyno events that I attended and felt brushed off becasue I was not dynoing.

When we have a group of people Jeff is trying to service, the spectators are usually not the first priority. I didn't see Mel paying much attention to all the people who watched my runs either.

I simply stated that I was not that comfortable with Jeff's operation

Unless you try his services, this statement is strictly hearsay.

I was agitated at the sticky and should not have posted that statement

These posts are meant to be informative based on what we've experienced organizing events. I disucessed this matter with Ed before posting it, and the final word lies with him in every situation. Ed also has his own opinion of TAG Motorsports which he obtained from his own experience, and if he wishes to share that with you, then you can become further informed of the basis of our decision. You seem to be very hung up on the fact this was my decision and I'm somehow taking it personally.

Let's consider this. If I was aware of the price situation, even without ever going there to dyno myself, we would still not be sanctioning TAG Motorsports as a club venue.

[MY90SC]

Steve

I simply stated in another thread that I was not that comfortable with Jeff's operation
I found him to be a very nice guy I did ask him a few Q's at one of last years dyno events that I attended and felt brushed off becasue I was not dynoing. I know he was busy but I had cash on me and was prepared to strap it on but decided against it
I was asked why I was not comfortable with dyno power services and I answered in another thread
as far as doing my own thing I do.
I was agitated at the sticky and should not have posted that statement.

I really do not believe that if approached properly with 10 T-birds wanting to dyno in one evening or afternoon Mel will not cut us some slack with pricing.
I pulled 4 times at Mels for the same price as you thats 21 bucks a pull. Last year at Jeffs during a club event the price was 50 bucks for 2 pulls without the slightly inaccurate sniffer. 60 bucks with I believe. so where is the price saving??

As far as the benefits of TAG for me at least
1-I drive my car.
2- dead accuracy.(if you install a bung)
3-Knowledgeable operator( he bought the dyno for the 1100 HP motor he built.)
4-I personally felt as though the dyno was mine for that hour and I liked that feeling.
5-flexibility-I called TAG at 5:00pm Tuesday and inquired about strapping my car down Mels answer was where are you when?? can you be here?? I told him I could be there in an hour he said no problem.


I guess after some thought my biggest problem with this is I had a very positive experience with TAG and Mel and wanted to promote the place only to find it being completey slammed on behalf of the club...of which I am a member.
very dissapointing.

no offense taken from your post at all Steve. I found it to be an honest comparison without slamming TAG or personally attacking Mel

thanks

[tbirdsc357]

Originally posted by MY90SC

no offense taken from your post at all Steve. I found it to be an honest comparison without slamming TAG or personally attacking Mel

thanks

Ron, I glad that you see it the way that I intended. Talk to you later.

I must sleep damn it..

[Les Borda]

Ok boys and girls things are getting out of hand once again, let's cool our jets shall we?

I have been to TAG with Ryan and Mel was a nice fellow and very helpful. We now know that the results between TAG and Dyno Services are pretty close, so no arguments to be had there.

Price is always a factor, if it is for you then your decision has already been made. If Mel is willing to negotiate price for a group of people, and therby keep their dyno times down to recoup his costs, great, if not so be it, that's ok too.

Nuff said on this subject???