Tax analogy.

[Slysc]

[MIKE 38sc]

That does'nt make any sense and makes for fun conversation on campus but its not really true. I've never gotten a free meal anywhere of any kind and I'm far from rich, hell I'm not even middle class anymore. By the way theres alot of wealthy people who live offshore just to beat tax's. Check out the wealthy air to the Cambell soup fortune, he belongs to just such a group.

[Slysc]

Smiley faces don't always make sense.
But they're contagous.

[92TBurnSC]

Well, to help people understand the "tax cuts for the rich" statement, allow me to explain a few things.

1. Everybody knew I was going to reply to this.

2. This analogy cheapens the way taxes are ACTUALLY levied. For example, the first tax bracket is, for example 0-$30k which is taxed at 0%. Keep in mind I am making these numbers up...but I am trying to be as accurate as possible. Then, the next bracket is 31-60k which is taxed at 10%. Then 61-90k at 20%. Then 91-120k at 25%. Then 121+ at 33%. So, lets look at someone making 60k (which is considered middle class) and someone who is making 250k. Now most of you are thinking the middle class guy is paying 10% of 60k and the rich guy is maying 33% of 250k. How unfair! How untrue. Let's look at numbers...

Middle class guy:
Incorrect tax: $6,000
Correct tax: $3,000

He pays 0% on the first 30k of his income. Then he pays 10% on the latter 30k of his income. Now for the rich guy...

Rich guy:
Incorrect tax: $82,500
Correct tax: $59,820

His first 30k isn't taxed, his second 30k is taxed at 10%, the next at 20%, the next at 25% and the remaining balance at 33%. Now, let's make a "tax cut for everybody" at 3 percentage points per bracket. New system:

0-30: still 0%
31-60: 7%
61-90: 17%
91-120: 22%
121+: 30%

Now let's recalculate.

Middle class guy:
Paid: $3,000
Now pays: $2,100
Savings: $900
Average savings per paycheck: $34.62

Rich guy:
Paid: $59,820
Now pays: $52, 500
Savings: $7,320
Average savings per paycheck: $281.54

Now, considering that these numbers are just an example, let's make the comparison to who gets the REAL benefit. To a person with a family of 4 (spouse and 3 kids), and extra $34.62 every 2 weeks...makes little difference. Hardly helps pay for gas. For the rich guy with same family, considering he's doing well in the first place, that $281.54 is just gravy. Yeah, he MIGHT spend it (as is the basic theory of Reaganomics), but studies show that the richer you are the more money you put away. Most rich people not only put this money away...but put it away where our government can't touch nor tax it.

Benefit to society: 0

That's a more accurate perspective.

[Slysc]

Can't a guy smile without getting bashed?

What's all the hostility about?

[92TBurnSC]

There are 2 things relative to this conversation that I can't stand.

1. Rich people who live in $3Million homes and drive Bimmers and complain that they pay too much tax. You make enough money to be able to afford it, spend exorbitant amounts of money, and still save enough to pass a large fortune to your next of kin. Quit yer whinin'. Most people who make this kind of money usually don't get there on the up and up. Just be quiet and finish being rich.

2. People who think taxes are 100% frittered away on useless stuff. To say NONE of it is would be naive. But a lot of good can come from it. Better trained police and firemen, better environmental quality (provided we dont have an oil baron in office), assistance to those in need to get back on their feet and rejoin the productive elements of society, et cetera. Relying on the private sector to help the economy is like relying on a known burglar to protect your home.

[1BADSC]

The current tax system is a joke. There needs to be a flat tax for everyone rich or poor. Or they could simply eliminate all taxes and only tax spending, not earnings.

They also need to eliminate the death tax and inheritance tax. The rich suffer horribly in this area. Any estate over 1 million dollars left to family is taxed at close to 55%. So if I leave my child 1,000,005 dollars they will only get around 500,000 after the government rapes them to feed those who refuse to work, and to fund useless entitlement programs. So don't try to say that the rich get all the breaks because you have no idea.

[XR7Kurt]

Most people who make this kind of money usually don't get there on the up and up

If you are a lot richer than I am should I feel this about you? Or is there some standard in the socialist handbook about how much someone can make honestly

Kurt

[1BADSC]

well the socialist... i mean democratic party would love to take everyone's money for themselves, keep the poor down, toss them scraps, and have them beggin like dogs for more entitlement programs to be handed down to them.

[92TBurnSC]

XR7Kurt: For one, if you are poorer than me...I feel for you. Heh. Working to put one's self through college means ultra broke. And two, how many ultra rich people do you hear being praised for their ethics? Excluding actors and such...they just step on other actor's toes. But thinking back I can only think of one, Sam Johnson, owner of SC Johnson Wax. He's a good fella. I met his son, though. He's a prick if there ever was one.

1BADSC: The problem with the flat tax is that you will be doing the same thing as Bush's tax cuts. You will have to find a middle ground percentage which will raise taxes for the poor (which is something they don't need) and lower taxes for the rich (which is something they don't need). Taxing spending, once again, is a swing and a miss. It will once again be a HUGE cut for the rich (who spend about 40% of their income, assuming) and a HUGE increase for the poor (who spend, on average, 102% of their income according to recent statistics). The law says taxes must be levied FAIRLY. Both a flat tax and a spending tax would negate that. Yes, rich people spend more than poor people, but they also make a lot more than they spend. And, frankly, if the rich want to whine about how much they get taxed, tell them I'll gladly trade places with them. I will gladly take over their fortune and pay their taxes, and they can take over my debt and live tax free forever.

Subsequently, I notice you must be reading a lot of Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity...you know...those crazy conservatives who call liberals "un-American" and say "liberals hate America" and such...just because we disagree with our president and speak out against him...which is the most American thing you could possibly do. Not to mention it doesn't kill our troops and/or civilians of other third world nations. And considering that the number of people in poverty always decreases under Democratic leadership...yeah...I would say we like to keep the poor poor. I mean, ALL rich fat cats are Democrats and LOVE to make the poor suffer. It makes for good entertainment, don'tcha know. And what are these entitlement programs and such that our taxes go to pay for? Well, let's take a look...

Military support, welfare (because people DO fall on hard times), unemployment (because Republicans have a tendancy to cause job losses), schools (which Republicans have implemented a lousy program to guide...and then underfunded it by 7 mil), highway maintenence (so you can drive your SC cross country), job training (to keep up with the ever changing job market), medical research (as long as it's not "immoral" stem cell research...which has the potential to cure just about the remainder of diseases on this planet though harm to no one and nothing), social awareness education (at least moreso under Democrats, under Republicans this usually amounts to nothing more than "kids...don't have sex until you're married. It's bad, mmkay?"), and, in general, protecting the freedom and way of life of our country.

And a few closing comments:
1. Bush and the Republican congress DID eliminate the so-called death tax, even though Democrats (namely Russ Feingold, D-WI)were willing to raise the bar to $8million to protect "family farms" which the Republicans were so worried about. Republicans rejected this and went ahead with repealing the ESTATE tax...you know...to protect all the family farms worth $8million or more...which there are none. So, it's official, the rich DO get all the breaks. Now all they have to do is just hurry up and die to take advantage of it.
2. This "socialist" name calling is uncalled for. If it continues I will just start using the term "fascist" to refer to conservatives. Childish, yes, but perhaps this could be seen as an ultimatum to refrain from name calling.
3. Why did the original post disappear, Sly?

[1BADSC]

I dislike liberals because they are our for themselves only. At one point a long time ago they might have had a good idea, but not any more. They can't even take a stand on anything. Then you have John Kerry flipping back and forth like an idiot. (another thing liberals love to do is the flip flop) John Kerry "If i was in offfice I would have sent troops to Hati on the double to help them out, no matter what. The things they faced down there were so horrible! Reply, ummm, Mr. Kerry I thought you said we should go through the UN for everything especially when it involves sending troops...... Kerry, ummmm, that is different. Yeah, whats different is that Liberals could gain more black votes by helping the Hatians, where there were no votes to win by helping the Iraqi's. Even though the people of Iraq have suffered hundreds of thousands of deaths.




Back to the taxes. Taxing everyone the same percent is the absolute best way and only fair way to tax people. You cannot argue with %. 10% is 10%, doesnt matter if it is out of 20,000 or 20,000. Everyone would be paying 10% of their income. Also having nothing but a tax on our spending would work very well. Check out www.fairtax.org

[MIKE 38sc]

[XR7JAKE]

92TBurnSC,
Why is it that you know so much but you have so little. Your tax example is total B.S.

[1BADSC]

And 92TBURN the reason the number of homeless and poor goes down when liberals are in office is because they raise taxes through the roof and tax the hell out of everyone so that they can pay for people who are too lazy to get a job. They think that they can jump start economic recovery by raising taxes. Business are even fleeing NYC and are headed to the NJ shores because they are being taxed out the wazoo, nice going Hilary.

[MIKE 38sc]