EEC Tuning Section

[XxSlowpokexX]

I know its been mentioned before but how about a tuner section for those wanting to tune their cars?

After looking at a few tunes (mind you I'm NOT a tuner) I noticed lack of upper RPM timing maps (from the factory) and timing being basically artificially raised from approximately 4,000 and up to compensate for the lack of timing you cant program in above 5,500 (or somewhere therabouts). So your basically getting the timing the car needs at the higher RPM's but at what cost? More prone to detonation?

Anyway I think an EEC tuner forum would be a great arena to discuss tuning topic only ideas and to share tune files between members (for those that would share). I'd perfer to learn through education then experimentation.

There are many of us that woudl love to share ideas, or just learn. I also realize some may not want to share but thats ok as well. Just think it would be a great addition. Perhaps a member only forum.

[fturner]

I concur, but when I messaged the bosses with the idea they said no to it.

I've also noticed on the earlier SC's (not sure about the later ones as I haven't looked yet) that the injector timing based on crank degrees is no where near optimal... especially at higher loads and RPM's. One of many things.

[XxSlowpokexX]

I dont see why we couldnt have a section for this. Many forums do to an extent. Perhaps not a file sharing place but at least an area where one can do a search and perhaps find the answer or person to help.

[Mike8675309]

Guys, what's wrong with the Performance section?

[Miller]

I think the problem would be that theres not a big group of people here that know how to tune.( just a guess? ) it would basically turn into Hey, how can I do this myself .....and im sure most of the questions by people would be directed at, Mr. Dalkey who dosent want to give his bizzzz up for freebies

[XxSlowpokexX]

Nothings wrong with the performance section or even just posting in the general tech section. Heck we can just make one huge forum section for everything. Afterall we arent the largest ACTIVE forum on the net. However it may be a topic that can be discussed heavily and therefore if someone wante to find information easier there would be a place. If I was personally a person who was good with code and lets say EFI management and tuning but not perhaps buildinga motor....I would look in that section to help people and probably spend a majority of my sccoa time there..Likewise if I was trying to learn. I also feel it would spark more interest in tuning and help those interested.

On the other hand maybe it wouldnt even be a popular section because many wouldnt want to help others with this. I have seen this attitude in the past (and its perfectly acceptable as we all have our own choices here). One has the secret part number combination for pistons and rods while the other has the super secret valve/spring combination. A year or two ago I had a very well known and respected ford engine builder willing to build us performance based shortblocks. When I tried to research different combinations people were using but all I could really give him was my own. He was more then willing to do "his own thing" but I said let me see what else is out there. In the end there didnt seem to be any interest in providing exact information on combinations so I told him that there wasnt an interest and that our comminity as a whole seemed perfectly happy doing what they have been doing all along.

Perhaps the same holds true with tuning. I personally know my freinds who are profesional tuners do not like giving away their secrets as well. But seriously folks. Like most I dont like having to pay 1 time for something I can do myself let alone pay 5 times over. Tuning and dyno time are not cheap. Either is my time however I'd rather do it myself and learn something then rely on someone else.

So if the community as a whole would rather pay someone (which is what I do currently anyways) then something like this is a bad idea. If not then its a great idea. Bottom line

[gldiii]

Going by posts an exhaust audio clip section would be more popular and get more traffic. We have made the decision not to have multiple boards in the public sections a long time ago. Most people cannot even choose between two boards. The member section has more areas and I don't believe tuning threads would get lost in the Performance section.

If there ever is enough traffic for a tuning forum it would go in the member's section.

[fturner]

Actually I now spend most of my time at other forums that have tuning sections in them instead of trying to muddle my way with the search here because all of the tuning related posts are spread across 5 or 6 different forums instead of all being contained in one forum. Also, because I'm spending most of my time at those other forums, what benefit is that to this community if I have anything to offer because all of my discussions are there?

Try to do that in a forum here, and its buried in no time with all of the other posts that go on. Try to search for a post on tuning and you literally have to seach almost all forums to get answers.

I have also read enough threads by Dave D to know that he is willing to help with at least the basics, and generally guides you in the right direction. He doesn't have to do that, but he does, and thats very commendable.

Oh well.

[XxSlowpokexX]

A seperate forum would just cause more attention to itself. You would go in there for one reason only. As always its unfortunate that we dont use the member forums to their fullest potential

[fturner]

Originally Posted by DamonSlowpokeBaumann

A seperate forum would just cause more attention to itself. You would go in there for one reason only. As always its unfortunate that we dont use the member forums to their fullest potential

True, and while we have members that copy and paste from the members sections to the non members section instead of encouraging membership it ain't gonna change much.

I just found something out about the SC 89/90 EEC's today that kind of rocked the boat a bit. Turns out Ford was even testing new ideas in those for the EEC V's. I'm not the only one dissassembling the code .

Oh well, people are obviously more interested in audio recordings of exhaust than the EEC

Damon, pm sent your way.

[gldiii]

You have both have seemingly missed my point entirely. There are probably at least 10+ forums that people would want, you guys just want the tuning forum more than any other forum. Is it the most deserving of a separate forum? No way to really determine that.

I'll tell you what. I'll put up a sticky in the TECH forum for Tuning posts. You guys can even post links to other valuable tuning posts already on the boards. If there is a lot of interest in the topic we will strongly consider setting up a tuning forum in the member's area. At least it's a start...

Thread is here: http://www.sccoa.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96462

[Mike8675309]

As far as use. We have to keep in mind that what benefit is a tuning forum to someone that doesn't have the capability to tune their car? I believe that right there is what limits the need.

It is also a valid point that some of the folks that know the most, really would prefer not to share as their income is derived from helping people with tuning. They don't want to give the cow away for free.

I know there are people that have EEC-Tuners, SCT tuners, and other such devices. But I rarely have seen them post. And if they do, they end up being the only one.

I know if I ever get the SCT stuff, I'll want to talk about it. it'll just be finding anyone else that wants to talk.

Probably the best place for basic theory of engine management is the yahoo groups out there.

[Miller]

What kinda new stuff did you find what was rockin boats ?

[fturner]

Originally Posted by Mike8675309

As far as use. We have to keep in mind that what benefit is a tuning forum to someone that doesn't have the capability to tune their car? I believe that right there is what limits the need.

It is also a valid point that some of the folks that know the most, really would prefer not to share as their income is derived from helping people with tuning. They don't want to give the cow away for free.

I know there are people that have EEC-Tuners, SCT tuners, and other such devices. But I rarely have seen them post. And if they do, they end up being the only one.

I know if I ever get the SCT stuff, I'll want to talk about it. it'll just be finding anyone else that wants to talk.

Probably the best place for basic theory of engine management is the yahoo groups out there.

I'm involved in a couple of projects that will hopefully change that for us, and it will give us simple folk the tools to datalog and tune our cars if so desired. Ultimately in the end, you will want to go to Dave D to get the final "max" power tweak so to speak on a dyno. But there is alot of work to getting the base tune in place that Dave doesn't have time to do because it can take days or even weeks of datalogging and tuning to get it right.

For example, one very common thing I see posted is people saying the car is going to run like crap after you "reset" the computer so to speak till it "learns" again. Frankly there is no need for that. I've been running my car without the long term fuel trims for over 4 weeks in this cold etc and my car purrs like a kitten right from startup to full op temp, and I have fantastic gas mileage. I also have very good response at WOT but I know there is more there so that will only get finalized on the dyno by Dave, or myself (hopefully) with Dave guiding me since I'm a stubborn (soon to be) old fart that wants to do everything myself .

This in no way is meant to say that Dave doesn't know what he's doing, he does, very much so. Its the time factor.

[XR7 Dave]

A thread in the open forums is not going to get the same discussion as it will get here. General "tuning" questions such as "when do I need a chip and how can a get a tune?" are not what this is about. Already there are too many questions going in too many directions to answer effectively in that one thread.

For most people the problem with tuning is that they don't even know where to start asking questions. Until we get some factual threads going that won't fall to the very bottom of the pile after awhile and/or get horribly off topic, people will not even learn what questions to ask.

We have to start some meaningful discussions on tuning and allow people to read what is being said so that they can be brought up to speed on what tuning is. I am not going to spend a lot of time on in depth answers to people's questions when they are so far off the mark in the first place. Sorry Damon, your question is badly off the mark. To use that example, the one place to start would be "understanding how to read an EEC tuner text file." I realize most people will not be using the EEC Tuner text file format for tuning, but until you understand how that works, moving forward is difficult.