3.8 L with 2.3 Whipple blower

[Burbank95sc]

Here is the VIDEO link of a GTP with 2.3 Whipple blower,it makes nice #.What ever happened to that project with Whipple blower on a super coupe that I saw way back.I don't see why SC wouldn't pull around 600hp with blower like that.


Here is the post from a shop that is working on this car.

We are shooting for over 600 WHP with 28 PSI this spring on this car. It is a daily driver, with full interior and custom leather. It will be getting a custom built roll cage this spring to meet NHRA requirements. It will be at the POCI Event at Barona Dragway in El Cajon, CA 2/16-2/17 if you want to see it in person. It will be the first time to a track since the Whipple went on last spring.

There are several turbo conversion GP's that are pushing over 600 WHP (one twin turbo over 800 WHP on a factory bottom end). The 3800 Series II/III is probably one of the best built engines ever produced, it is a shame GM has canned it.

[XxSlowpokexX]

There is no reason. The 2.3 whipple is still around. I'm sure with more boost we will get there but noone as of yet has run that much boost out of their AR's or the 2.3 whipple when it was running. I'm sure it will change soon enough

The 3800 Series II/III is probably one of the best built engines ever produced, it is a shame GM has canned it.

...errrrr

[92bird]

...errrrr

What does that mean?

[XxSlowpokexX]

Err means I was never really impressed

[nickleman60]

Doesn't Super XR7 have a 2.4 AR on his ride?

[92bird]

Err means I was never really impressed

I know what you meant, I was just trying to get a rile outta ya. hehe..

I thought that too until I got involved in the GTP community. We have a GTP member in Colorado running 11's (at mile high) on a stock longblock with over 200k miles and some rediculous amount of nitrous. (250 shot I believe).. Only mods are a Gen V blower, 2.8 pulley, 1.9 rockers and full exhaust.

He manages a pizza hut and delivers in his car all year long.

I'm really surprized the modified 3800's don't have problems. They have teeny weeny piston ring lands and no intercooler, yet they manage to survive. I think a lot of it has to do with the advanced knock sensor controls, and knock retard function in the PCM.

My daily driver is a 2000 GTP. It runs 14.8 at mile high on a stock pulley ( about 5 psi boost), 1.9 rockers, 2.5" downpipe, DHP tuner, and cold air intake. I'm still a Ford fan, and won't do too much more to the GTP. But I have to admit its been dead nuts reliable for the past 2 years and 30k miles I've had it (total mileage 108k now).. Its also a hoot to drive around town. Just wish the gears weren't so tall 1-2 shift at 61mph and 2-3 shift at 97mph with performance shift on.

Just my .02

[ricardoa1]

Originally Posted by 92bird

I'm really surprized the modified 3800's don't have problems. They have teeny weeny piston ring lands and no intercooler, yet they manage to survive. I think a lot of it has to do with the advanced knock sensor controls, and knock retard function in the PCM.

Just my .02

Thats the only reason my 400whp Neon has survived 30k miles with no problem. If the SC had a knock sensor like that you would see alot more still running. But the GM 3.8L is not as good as the SC 3.8L the heads dont flow as well.

[superdadsc]

Is there an aftermarket engine mgt. kit that has these features that you are talking about, one that might increase durability and performance from a higher tech unit? Just wondering

[92bird]

But the GM 3.8L is not as good as the SC 3.8L the heads dont flow as well.

Not true.

Here's the following info for both heads, at 28" of water and .500 valve lift.

Stock series II 3800 GM heads: 186 cfm intake and 148 cfm exhaust

Stock 89-95 SC heads: 165 cfm intake and 120 cfm exhaust

For comparison, my stock valve size, ported DR FRED stage I heads flow about 190 cfm intake and 160 cfm exhaust.

stock GM heads > stock SC heads

Also, GM cams tend to be a little healthier. My GTP shift points are set around 6,000 rpm with the stock cam, and it pulls pretty hard all the way up there.

My GTP made the below dyno numbers before any mods, except a basic PCM tune and cold air intake, on only 5 psi boost.

Not doggin' the SC, I own one, and have for nearly 10 yrs. Its just that stock for stock, the GM SC 3.8L is a better performer out of the box, but I believe with the right mods and the ability to fully tune, the SC has more potential.

Jeramie

[ricardoa1]

How much do they flow ported?

[MediumD]

Originally Posted by 92bird

Its just that stock for stock, the GM SC 3.8L is a better performer out of the box,

Yep. It's just a shame GM handicapped it with FWD.

[92bird]

How much do they flow ported?

Intense stage 4 heads flow 224 intake and 212 exhaust with slightly larger valves.

To compare, I believe welded-port Steigemeier heads flow around 214 intake and 210 exhaust (going by memory, may be off slightly).

But, the SC has the advantage of aluminum heads, better heat dissapation = more timing before knock.

GM heads are cast iron. Heavy, old tech stuff, but solid as nails.

The series III 3800 S/C got an Eaton gen V blower, better connecting rods, throttle by wire, enhanced tq managment, and a slightly larger exhaust valve (2004+ GTP)

[CMac89]

SC heads will flow 230-240cfm depending on port job. Exhaust flow isn't worth talkin about.

Aluminum heads make less power than a cast iron head will. The less timing a motor has to run to make maximum horsepower, the more efficient it is. An aluminum head uses more timing to increase the duration of time fuel burns inside of a cylinder, which is determined by heat. It takes energy to dissipate heat, which costs HP.

A cast iron head doesn't need very much timing to create the heat required in a cylinder to burn fuel. It doesn't have a constant flux in cylinder temperatures that an aluminum head does. That takes energy as well.

Also, an aluminum cylinder head creates hot spots, which also means there has to be a cold spot, on the combustion chamber. The hot spots create decomposition of hydrocarbons inside of a fuel. Heat separates least dense molecules (hydrogen) exposing them as free radicals, which combust by pressure alone. Combustion of a free radical causes auto ignition inside of a cylinder, meaning the fuel is ignited before spark occurs, which causes detonation.

Knock isn't a violent function. It is a wave front across the top of a piston that causes slight agitation from turbulence. Knock happens before detonation, but if it's present alone, it won't result in damage.

[XxSlowpokexX]

Casey. Both iron and aluminum heads will provide "hot spots" especially where there is casting flash or thin ridges. Now how would an aluminum head work compared to an iron head with both having thermal coatings used. The heat of combustion should be retained in both and hot spots eliminated in the combustion chamber.

About 3.8vs3.8 heads

I knew someone years ago that flowed GN heads and SC heads on the same flowbech and the SC heads had flowed better. Are the later model 3800 heads better? I dont recall the flow numbers anything. It was a long time ago

[CMac89]

They do both create hot spots, but it's splitting hairs. Aluminum will output significant effects of the hot spots quite significantly before cast iron will.

I've tried every thermal coating, they don't work with anything I've run. They haven't changed the amount of timing run. They may help severe hot spots, but they don't heat up a cold spot.

With an angle plug head, the hot side of the combustion chamber is the exhaust valve side. Radicals diffuse to cold spot (intake valve) areas which, again, create combustion by pressures exerted on the radical before spark occurs.