Hot summer days and the SC

Here is an easy test you can do. Get both a 180 and a 195 thermostat, boil some water in a pot on the stove with a thermometer in it, and put both thermostats in the water at 220F. At that point you should be able to clearly see how far both are open without taking apart anything on the car. I suspect as you said that both will be fully open well below 220F, and so I suspect switching to a 195 will not improve anything, but if the stovetop test shows otherwise, then it may be worth a try. You can also test at other temperatures to see exactly when they open, how fast they open, when they close, etc.
 
I think the scheme to turn the fan off above a given speed is more about conserving engine load, saving fuel, and improving responsiveness. Similar to A/C defeat under WOT. In other words, stacking is a non-factor, at least in our example.
 
I'm convinced the MP FMIC simply can not keep up with the heavy modification levels were at. Looking for ways to reinvent the wheel is something we've attempted for years and we've yet to find any solutions. Seems like we know this issue and just need to face reality.

Every heavily modded SC with an MP FMIC has had this same issue situation. Just need to face the music.

-Tim
 
I can tell you in the boat world, if the t stat is stuck open the engine runs cold. So as long as you can keep the fluid in the radiator cool the engine will stay cool. In other words keep cooler air flowing over the radiator.
 
Here is an easy test you can do. Get both a 180 and a 195 thermostat, boil some water in a pot on the stove with a thermometer in it, and put both thermostats in the water at 220F. At that point you should be able to clearly see how far both are open without taking apart anything on the car. I suspect as you said that both will be fully open well below 220F, and so I suspect switching to a 195 will not improve anything, but if the stovetop test shows otherwise, then it may be worth a try. You can also test at other temperatures to see exactly when they open, how fast they open, when they close, etc.

I agree with stove top testing of the thermostat before installing. Last time I tested several different brands of 180 t-stat the test results varied wildly. I placed them all in pan with temp probe and noted the temps for each when they started opening , were fully open and then turned off stove and checked the closing temps. Then repeated the test to make sure it was valid.
 
Last edited:
This was a test of a 170* t-stat...

Closed at 165*
t165.JPG

Slightly open at 186*...
t186.JPG

Fully open by 196*...
t196.JPG

and at 200*...
t200.JPG
 
Thank you all. Seems there is about a 15-20 degree difference to full open. At average temps of 220f both should be fully open but maybe the 192f if dwell time myth is true it might help. But the more I read the more I believe that the Dwell time theories is just a myth. Flow should be prioritized especially with an aluminum radiator. So going to order a high flow 180f stat to inch up on improving the system. I have not replaced my Tstat in a long time for all I know it might be getting stuck and not opening fully. Highly unlikely but. Something to try. Doing the 180 to continue to reap the benefits during early and late summer when the car can manage to bring the temps to 180ish.

High flow on the right.
 

Attachments

  • 7632F9D3-9A30-43CC-9671-1CC2096E2386.jpeg
    7632F9D3-9A30-43CC-9671-1CC2096E2386.jpeg
    66.5 KB · Views: 10
Ricardo,

See post 57 on this thread for info on my testing of thermostats. Mr. Gasket 180 worked best.

 
Thank you David but not sure what the part number would be for that. The pictures are not clear online cause they are generic. On your thread it claims it looked like a stock one? There is only a couple of high flow ones showing up on rock auto. They have the tripod support and the guts have a larger diameter. Stock has a single bridge and the plunger areas are smaller. The flow might or might not do much. But I do have overdrives maybe this will improve it. I know it’s peeing in the ocean. I’m not afraid of 220f as I was before. The car runs fine. Obviously the head room to boiling over is smaller, but I’m not tooling on the car when it’s 100deg unless I’m in the highway doing high speeds and temps are fine at that point.
 

Attachments

  • 7EF204FF-CF14-458D-8821-398E61B6E536.png
    7EF204FF-CF14-458D-8821-398E61B6E536.png
    281.8 KB · Views: 3
I’m not afraid of 220f as I was before. The car runs fine. Obviously the head room to boiling over is smaller, but I’m not tooling on the car when it’s 100deg unless I’m in the highway doing high speeds and temps are fine at that point.
Apples to oranges but I know how you feel. The Terminator swapped Mark VIII I used to own would heat soak on hot summer days and 220 degrees operating temperature was pretty normal when it was 95 plus ambient temps. I ran an OBD2 gauge on it that had a programmable alarm function. I set the alarm for 225 degrees to get my attention to try to keep it below 230.
 
Thank you David but not sure what the part number would be for that. The pictures are not clear online cause they are generic. On your thread it claims it looked like a stock one? There is only a couple of high flow ones showing up on rock auto. They have the tripod support and the guts have a larger diameter. Stock has a single bridge and the plunger areas are smaller. The flow might or might not do much. But I do have overdrives maybe this will improve it. I know it’s peeing in the ocean. I’m not afraid of 220f as I was before. The car runs fine. Obviously the head room to boiling over is smaller, but I’m not tooling on the car when it’s 100deg unless I’m in the highway doing high speeds and temps are fine at that point.

Ricardo,

I'm 99% sure this is the one I used.

 
Thanks David,

The MR gasket one appears to be a balanced sleeve type, the original design is a poppet type. I can’t prove one flows more but they say a poppet type should flow more when fully open and shuts completely with water pump pressure to allow quicker warming. The balanced sleeve aligns the holes but doesn’t fully close. It might prove quicker opening to full open tho. I take it it fits in the SC housing?
I have the high flow poppet on order from Rock Auto I’ll try to test it in water to see how many degrees it needs to open.
 

Attachments

  • FFCC6308-CFB0-4A75-8350-CCBC9BC2F4E9.png
    FFCC6308-CFB0-4A75-8350-CCBC9BC2F4E9.png
    429 KB · Views: 5
  • 802E2E9F-6C24-4B12-9436-59F6D630920F.png
    802E2E9F-6C24-4B12-9436-59F6D630920F.png
    435.7 KB · Views: 5
  • 6383A73E-191E-41C8-96DF-9E996B6C19D2.png
    6383A73E-191E-41C8-96DF-9E996B6C19D2.png
    217.1 KB · Views: 5
An interesting point on the balance sleeve is that it’s good at the track since it does bypass some coolant, imagine after a cool down period, temps are below 180 and you go for a run. That thermostat will have a delay for opening fully and a quick pass can allow added pressures to build up engine temps high and Tstat closed. The balance sleeve can prevent it pressure build at WOT. Poppet might actually close up WOT if enough pump pressures.
 
Ordered some Chinese sandwich tonight.
 

Attachments

  • 867B138A-0C00-418A-9B3F-57B11C116DF7.jpeg
    867B138A-0C00-418A-9B3F-57B11C116DF7.jpeg
    65.9 KB · Views: 13
Going to also start building an engine oil cooler, this is the thermostatic oil filter adapter plate, it will open at around 170f. It will pass to an external oil cooler. I will need to build me some -10AN fittings and hoses. Hope to install it inside the bumper somewhere.

I have to decide if putting the plate before or after the OE oil/water cooler is the correct choice. I feel like it should be before so it’s a more efficient heat exchanger. Cooler oil to then pass the OE cooler lower coolant temps. Not sure I want to delete the oe water cooler.
 

Attachments

  • C915E73D-D983-416D-B7EF-4F2F410F7679.png
    C915E73D-D983-416D-B7EF-4F2F410F7679.png
    180.1 KB · Views: 3
If you are running an external oil cooler, I would definitely delete the OE one. Not only will that simplify the cooling system plumbing and reduce potential failure points, but any heat you can keep out of the cooling system is less heat that you have to shed on a hot summer day. Plus that external setup will do a way better job of keeping the oil cool than the OE oil cooler.
 
I'm a big fan of aftermarket oil coolers when conditions warrant the investment. Are you giving any thought to doing a remote filter mount? Perhaps a dual-filter setup?

If stacking, I'd leave the OE heat exchanger where it is and just add the new adapter...curious if the result would make the filter a bit easier to access, or if the filter would stick out/down more, possibly making it an easier target come trauma.

Sorry if I missed it, do you already have an oil temp gauge? Cracks me up, my twin-turbo Audi left the factory with an engine oil temp gauge, but no boost gauge...
 
Still debating, and it is someway experimental, I don’t have an oil temp gauge. There is a port on the sandwich adapter I believe can be used for an aftermarket sensor. I have a custom Kmember so I hope to clear it all, it’s not that thick of an adapter anyhow, Stock location is the idea, less failure points and I just don’t have the space anywhere else for remote, trying to be as clean as possible with the mod, I might have gone overzealous with the 30 plate unit size wise. Going to do my best to fit it in front of the ABS and the fog light mounted vertically. Not sure much airflow happens there so hopefully some heat radiates and convects naturally, might need to take off the fog light black plastic halo. A fan if it fits might be needed. I hope the cooler will knock down 5-10 degrees from the coolant. I don’t want it in front of the condenser since that set up needs a good stating point with low ambient temperatures. The bumper has an opening for changing the fog light bulbs, not sure how to leverage that just yet.

On a previous note I got the new poppet high flow 180 thermostat, I ran to the parts store to compare to a stock one, and the diameter of the opening is definitely larger than an oe one, so I’m happy it’s not a marketing gimmick, it’s truly a larger opening.

I tested it and initially it took 190deg to even begin opening but it continued to open past it and it was fully open by 200deg, on the closing it was a lot more accurate, 195 and it was shutting 3/4, 190 was 1/2, 185 1/4 and at 180 it fully closed again. So it’s not as quick as Neiberts MrGasket style. I might as well run this one. As it’s working as advertised albeit 20deg differential, fully open past 200 is fine given my 220f limitations in blazing heat.
 

Attachments

  • A82360B5-B134-4772-A9A6-B5F94755D34C.jpeg
    A82360B5-B134-4772-A9A6-B5F94755D34C.jpeg
    121.9 KB · Views: 4
  • 62C2486F-3D3D-4728-B65A-EF7176A92472.jpeg
    62C2486F-3D3D-4728-B65A-EF7176A92472.jpeg
    97.6 KB · Views: 4
  • 2B37EAB5-A7E2-4BB4-B352-CC059568AD6A.jpeg
    2B37EAB5-A7E2-4BB4-B352-CC059568AD6A.jpeg
    93.7 KB · Views: 4
For those who don’t have Facebook, just putting some pics of what I’m working with.

Radiator is a two row with two 1” tubes, it’s slightly thinner than a griffin for an SC or a cold case that Tim runs, those use x2 1.25” tubes.

The fans are Mishimoto Brushless HD 10”
 

Attachments

  • 23F6F213-3785-4143-8745-EF342A695D9C.jpeg
    23F6F213-3785-4143-8745-EF342A695D9C.jpeg
    180.2 KB · Views: 15
  • 0547F6D3-63A7-45EB-A892-8703C30D96D7.jpeg
    0547F6D3-63A7-45EB-A892-8703C30D96D7.jpeg
    90.7 KB · Views: 13
  • 0634C7B5-433D-48D0-9950-FB0BD40A81A3.jpeg
    0634C7B5-433D-48D0-9950-FB0BD40A81A3.jpeg
    96.4 KB · Views: 12
  • 78614AB2-D58D-4B99-B5E8-9EF15E79AC5B.jpeg
    78614AB2-D58D-4B99-B5E8-9EF15E79AC5B.jpeg
    86.4 KB · Views: 14
Back
Top