4.6 2V swap dream list

[Trekie47]

Hi there everybody, I would like some assistance in laying out the steps i would need to take, and a parts list for throwing a junkyard 4.6 2V into my 1991 SC to replace the frankly overly complex and sassy 3.8 that currently resides in the engine bay. I'm not sure on everything that would be required for an engine swap of this nature. I would like to keep the m90, or some sort of blower that makes that sweet, sweet whine. As with all things I would like to keep the cost down as much as possible and i'm not looking to make massive power. Just something that sounds nice, and gets my cousin off my case for owning a v6.

To start off with i know i'll need an engine, and compatible transmission, preferable a manual because if i'm doing an engine swap why not take the extera step to replace the ancient AOD. I was thinking maybe my best bet would be finding a totaled mustang GT or something for cheap, but any and all feedback is welcome.

 

[decipha]

the 3.8 isn't complex at all once you actually get used to them and if you think thats complex then a trans and engine swap being boosted is going to be much more complex

in any case theres not really a cheap option for what your wanting which is a supercharged engine that originally came n/a

before you consider an engine swap you need to first consider the vehicle age and required maintenance
suspension will need to be gone through and brakes will need to be swapped to newer mechanical style (non-electrical teves system like stock)

for the engine swap
$600 - 1999-2010 2v engine is ideal as it has the PI heads, usually 05-10 crown vic engines are usually plentiful
$350 engine should have new metal timing chain tensioners tossed in it before you toss the engine in, so factor in the price of a gasket kit
$100 you'd need a tbird or cougar 4.6 k-member
$60 engine harness from 01-03 f150 5.4 truck along with trans harness
$35 ecu - best bet is an 03/04 luxury sedan ecu (crown vic, grand marquis, marauder, town car, etc...) sourced from local u pull it
$250 moates quarterhorse for tuning direct from moates.net
$100 fluids, consumables and piece parts
~$1500

for the trans
$60 master cylinder
$60 slave cylinder
$100 pedal assembly
$40 hydraulic line
$120 clutch kit
$350 transmission
$300 drive shaft
$100 shifter
$50 console top
$100 - fluids and misc
~$1300

for the blower - you can ditch the m90 idea its too small for a 6 cylinder much less an 8
$7000 - procharger kit or the like
full fuel system, slot style maf, tune, etc...

So your looking roughly $10k at the bare minimum being the absolute cheapest assuming you do all the work yourself and you have all the tools.
Then still your still limited to a stock engine in unknown condition and are limited to just over 400 rwhp. Thats double a stock supercoupe though but still slower than a new stock coyote.

 

[Trekie47]

the 3.8 isn't complex at all once you actually get used to them and if you think thats complex then a trans and engine swap being boosted is going to be much more complex

in any case theres not really a cheap option for what your wanting which is a supercharged engine that originally came n/a

before you consider an engine swap you need to first consider the vehicle age and required maintenance
suspension will need to be gone through and brakes will need to be swapped to newer mechanical style (non-electrical teves system like stock)

for the engine swap
$600 - 1999-2010 2v engine is ideal as it has the PI heads, usually 05-10 crown vic engines are usually plentiful
$350 engine should have new metal timing chain tensioners tossed in it before you toss the engine in, so factor in the price of a gasket kit
$100 you'd need a tbird or cougar 4.6 k-member
$60 engine harness from 01-03 f150 5.4 truck along with trans harness
$35 ecu - best bet is an 03/04 luxury sedan ecu (crown vic, grand marquis, marauder, town car, etc...) sourced from local u pull it
$250 moates quarterhorse for tuning direct from moates.net
$100 fluids, consumables and piece parts
~$1500

for the trans
$60 master cylinder
$60 slave cylinder
$100 pedal assembly
$40 hydraulic line
$120 clutch kit
$350 transmission
$300 drive shaft
$100 shifter
$50 console top
$100 - fluids and misc
~$1300

for the blower - you can ditch the m90 idea its too small for a 6 cylinder much less an 8
$7000 - procharger kit or the like
full fuel system, slot style maf, tune, etc...

So your looking roughly $10k at the bare minimum being the absolute cheapest assuming you do all the work yourself and you have all the tools.
Then still your still limited to a stock engine in unknown condition and are limited to just over 400 rwhp. Thats double a stock supercoupe though but still slower than a new stock coyote.

so the actual swap doesn't seem too spendy for just the engine, it'll probably end up being cheaper than trying to mantain the frisky 3.8. What type of transmission should i look for specifically for the manual swap, and just as a bandaid i suppose, what would i need to do to adapt the m90 to the 4.6 while i save up for a better blower kit? A coyote would be really cool to have, but there's just something special about those little 4.6's that i love.

 

[David Neibert]

so the actual swap doesn't seem too spendy for just the engine, it'll probably end up being cheaper than trying to mantain the frisky 3.8. What type of transmission should i look for specifically for the manual swap, and just as a bandaid i suppose, what would i need to do to adapt the m90 to the 4.6 while i save up for a better blower kit? A coyote would be really cool to have, but there's just something special about those little 4.6's that i love.

Would be much easier to do a 5.0 swap from a 91-93 T-bird LX. You could also keep the AOD or swap to a 5 speed from an SC.

 

[Tim Groth]

Honestly I feel it would be much less involved and simpler to sell the SC and purchase a 94-97 LX bird with a 2v 4.6.

I swap a mark drive train into an MN12 bird it was very involved and pretty much involved using everything from the donor car. If going 4.6l 2v you'll be ditching the AOD and will need either a 4R70W or manual trans from 05-09 GT stang TR3650 i believe it is.

All of this sounds rather involved when you could just buy a 4.6 bird and have what you're looking for as a starting point.

-Tim

 

[DOUG H]

If you think a10K isn't too spendy compared to maintaining a 3.8 & you think there is something special about those little 4.6's , maybe just swap car's rather then powertrains, maybe a Marauder or as Tim suggested a bird with 4.6

 

[racecougar]

Agreed that it is a relatively involved swap, though the K-member does not need to be swapped. I still have the original K-member in my '90 XR7 with a Teksid.

I went the route of converting over to OBD-II, using modified harnesses from a '97 4.6L MN12. Knocked this swap out twenty years ago, and it's still a blast to drive. If I was considering something like this nowadays, and wanted to stick with a Ford power plant, I'd go for the Godzilla engine.

 

[Trekie47]

If you think a10K isn't too spendy compared to maintaining a 3.8 & you think there is something special about those little 4.6's , maybe just swap car's rather then powertrains, maybe a Marauder or as Tim suggested a bird with 4.6

oh 10k is very spendy, i was talking about the 1500ish that decipha had layed out to do the engine swap by itself. Swapping to another car would probably be the smart thing to do if i just wanted to play with a 4.6, but i love my Thunderbird. It just so happens that the super coupe that i aquired was not well taken care of, and has fought me every step of the way. It would be alot easier to start from a 4.6 bird, but i've already gone through and redone most of the suspension and brakes on this one.

 

[Trekie47]

Would be much easier to do a 5.0 swap from a 91-93 T-bird LX. You could also keep the AOD or swap to a 5 speed from an SC.

My uncle keeps trying to push my towards the 5.0, but because the car from birth has been a super coupe I would like to keep the super charger. Not to mention the whine it makes never fails to put a smile on my face. So if there is a way to adapt the M90 to a 5.0 i'm all ears.

 

[Trekie47]

Agreed that it is a relatively involved swap, though the K-member does not need to be swapped. I still have the original K-member in my '90 XR7 with a Teksid.

I went the route of converting over to OBD-II, using modified harnesses from a '97 4.6L MN12. Knocked this swap out twenty years ago, and it's still a blast to drive. If I was considering something like this nowadays, and wanted to stick with a Ford power plant, I'd go for the Godzilla engine.

View attachment 96877

what was all required to convert the vehicle over to OBD-II ?

 

[Trekie47]

Honestly I feel it would be much less involved and simpler to sell the SC and purchase a 94-97 LX bird with a 2v 4.6.

I swap a mark drive train into an MN12 bird it was very involved and pretty much involved using everything from the donor car. If going 4.6l 2v you'll be ditching the AOD and will need either a 4R70W or manual trans from 05-09 GT stang TR3650 i believe it is.

All of this sounds rather involved when you could just buy a 4.6 bird and have what you're looking for as a starting point.

-Tim

Buying a 2V bird and throwing a blower on that would be the smart thing to do, but i have already put the effort in to rejuvenate the suspension and brakes on this super coupe. Plus the closest 4.6 bird that i can find is 400 miles away and $5000

 

[AdamG]

If you plan on going with a v8, get rid of any ideas of running the m90, it will hurt more than help, not big enough. Honestly even at $5000 that will still be cheaper than a motor swap. That $1500 was just a basic idea on the motor itself, if adding a supercharger of any kind, at least triple that figure. If going with a junkyard motor (or any used replacement) you should change all gaskets and seals while it is out and easy to get to, along with the timing set and oil pump. You will have to change transmissions regardless because the bell housing is different on a 4.6, whereas the 3.8 and 5.0 are the same. Then you will have a wiring nightmare splicing into the original harness if you still want your gauges, ac, ect to still work. It can be done, but things can snowball really quick (like ok, the motor is out, might as well clean the engine compartment, ect), plus be ready to take a while to complete, this wouldn't be a quick weekend swap. If you're dead set on doing a swap, look for a donor car that runs, then you know you have a good start. I have a 5.0 car, a sc and several buddies have 4.6 mn12s so I've worked on most setups on these cars. The 5.0 is by far the easiest to work on, the 4.6 isn't bad, but it's size becomes an issue getting to certain things. The sc motor isn't bad once you get used to it, they just have more components than the v8s so it becomes a little overwhelming sometimes.

 

[Wile E. Coyote Jr.]

If I had gotten my 90 SC with the engine still in it, I would have kept it. And Im actually building a turbo 3.8 to put back in it inplace of the 5.0.

Like the guys have said, 3.8s arent complex. They are extremely simple engines. If you mean its complex because you have to pull the IC piping to do the spark plugs, then idk how youll do on an engine swap. Just being honest.


Maintaining can be expensive, but they arent tricky. Its like any other luxury car from the early 90s. But that falls more into the adjustable suspension and ABS, not the engine.

 

[David Neibert]

My uncle keeps trying to push my towards the 5.0, but because the car from birth has been a super coupe I would like to keep the super charger. Not to mention the whine it makes never fails to put a smile on my face. So if there is a way to adapt the M90 to a 5.0 i'm all ears.

Sounds like you don't really know what you are getting yourself into when doing an engine swap. First thing you need to do is set a budget, then we can offer suggestions that might actually work for you.

 

[racecougar]

what was all required to convert the vehicle over to OBD-II ?

Modifying harnesses from a OBD-II MN12.

 

[Trekie47]

If I had gotten my 90 SC with the engine still in it, I would have kept it. And Im actually building a turbo 3.8 to put back in it inplace of the 5.0.

Like the guys have said, 3.8s arent complex. They are extremely simple engines. If you mean its complex because you have to pull the IC piping to do the spark plugs, then idk how youll do on an engine swap. Just being honest.


Maintaining can be expensive, but they arent tricky. Its like any other luxury car from the early 90s. But that falls more into the adjustable suspension and ABS, not the engine.

i wouldn't call having to remove the intercooler pipes to do a tune up complex, more of a pain in the ass. I'm more reffering to the wiring side, and how the ignition system works. Not to mention i haven't the fainted clue in what is required to tune the cars to run as well as they can once you start making modifications, short of buying a $500 costume chip from SCP.

 

[Trekie47]

Sounds like you don't really know what you are getting yourself into when doing an engine swap. First thing you need to do is set a budget, then we can offer suggestions that might actually work for you.

To be completely honest i do not fully know what i would be getting into for doing a drive train swap, but learning is one of my favorite parts about living. The inspiration for an engine swap mostly came from frustration of trying replace the harmonic dampner, and when i went to test if the issue was corrected the darn thing wouldn't start.
I think i traced it to a bad IRCM, but i'm also concerned about not putting the dampener on correctly and needing to buy another $25 crank bolt because i've been told they are single use. It also needs new engine mounts, and valve cover gaskets it seems so because i'm not a contortionist it would probably be easier to just take the engine out and redo everything, but if i'm going that far whats a little extra in putting in another engine.

I apologize for the rambling I am simply upset with the vehicle because i do my best to love it, and in return it kicks me in the shins.

 

[Wile E. Coyote Jr.]

Tuning anything thats EFI will be like that unless you spend the time and money to learn how to do it yourself. And given Im doing that, its a hell of a lot easier said than done.

You will need to do the same thing for your 4.6 swap. And, atleast from what most shops told me, a lot of programs just dont support EECV and older computers anymore. So youre back to getting an SCT chip (or Xcal), or going with TunerproRT and learning it yourself.


And idk whats complicated about the ignition wiring. Wiring in itself is complicated without a diagram. And if you havent done wiring before its multiplied.
like this is the wiring I did for my first variant of my 5.0 swap. Running an Explorer EEC as a stand alone unit. I swapped to the 96 Bird EEC later because there are no strategies to tune the Expo units, where the Birds ones are free for TurnerPro and BE, though BE is now corrupted from what Ive been told.


I guess Im the wrong person to ask "whats complicated" because I have taken cars down to bare chassis and built them back. But I still think youre better off just fixing what you have instead of trying to swap it. Cause thats not easier than maintaining/modifying what you have.

 

[Wile E. Coyote Jr.]

This would have been an edit to my original post above, but for some reason this forum has editing limits. Which is weird.

i read your other message. Please walk us through your diag of the no start situation. If you broke the HB first thing Id say is the crank sensor is damaged. If its not, Im going to assume you had to pull the timing cover off to get pieces of the HB off the crank shaft. If thats the case, unplug the CAM sensor and try again. Youll need to crank it three times before it starts with an unplugged cam sensor. If it starts, remove the cam sensor, put the engine at C#1 TDC compression, align the cam sensor, and reinstall it. Same thing happened on my 89 SC when I first got it.

 

[Trekie47]

This would have been an edit to my original post above, but for some reason this forum has editing limits. Which is weird.

i read your other message. Please walk us through your diag of the no start situation. If you broke the HB first thing Id say is the crank sensor is damaged. If its not, Im going to assume you had to pull the timing cover off to get pieces of the HB off the crank shaft. If thats the case, unplug the CAM sensor and try again. Youll need to crank it three times before it starts with an unplugged cam sensor. If it starts, remove the cam sensor, put the engine at C#1 TDC compression, align the cam sensor, and reinstall it. Same thing happened on my 89 SC when I first got it.

i'm slowly learning how to read wiring diagrams, i'm more referring to the physical layout of the wires in the vehicle. everything is almost always in an awkward position or tight to reach space.
As for the harmonica balancer situation it ended up being a bad under drive pulley that was causing the wobbling, the old balancer was fine but i was told that the balancer and pulley were to be replaced as a pair. The old blancer came off without a fight but i think my method for installing the new one was flawed. Specifically in trying to stop the engine from spinning while tightening the bolt.

As for the tuning bit, that's what i meant in the fact that most of the software to tune these older obd1 vehicles is incompatible with newer computers and operating systems.